Bonded?

Originally Posted By: bbadger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



jpope wrote:
Just having a little fun at Bob's expense. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)




Jeff, fun aside your point was taken, evaluate was the wrong way to put it.

Bob


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Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: bbadger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Roger Petersen wrote:
I am starting to feel as though my accurate statement is being picked apart by those of you who feel the need to be the ultimate authority. Please keep in mind that although a picture may be worth a thousand words it will often hide the obvious.


I am sorry you felt / feel that way, different opinions on the same picture is the nature of Internet forums. Your opinion is as welcome here as mine or anyones. ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif)

I see you have only a few posts here I respectfully suggest you develop a little thicker skin. Whenever you post expect someone to outright disagree or at least have a different view then yours.

Heck people disagree with me quite often, sometimes they are wise to do so and I learn something. ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif)

Bob


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: phinsperger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Help me learn something about generator switching panels. Where are the rest of the neutrals?



.



Paul Hinsperger
Hinsperger Inspection Services
Chairman - NACHI Awards Committee
Place your Award Nominations
here !

Originally Posted By: bbadger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



phinsperger wrote:
Help me learn something about generator switching panels. Where are the rest of the neutrals?



![icon_idea.gif](upload://6VKizmOm2U7YYmfXNtFW4XTwFVy.gif)

That is a darn good question, one that I had not noticed, they should be in that panel.

Most likely the neutrals where left behind at the original panel, that would be an additional violation.

Bob


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: rmoore
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Here’s a fun one…


[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/041119H0010s.jpg ]

Panel in a large barn workshop on a two home mini ranch. Panel used to be fed from a 100-amp breaker in the panel at the main house but those conductors are now snipped off at the conduit entrance. Now it is being fed by a 30 amp breaker at the service equipment at the barn exterior. I don't know which 30-amp breaker (no clips) is actually the one being back fed. The neutrals and grounds are separated at the panel but the original neutral conductor is still connected back at the house and there's also a EGC at the same bar still connected at the house! You may also notice that the neutral bar on the left being used for the grounding conductors isn't bonded to the panel itself. In other words the panel box isn't grounded. Totally screwed up. Fortunately the client is a licensed electrician himself and seemed like he was looking forward to fixing this mess.


--
Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com

Originally Posted By: bbadger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



rmoore wrote:
Fortunately the client is a licensed electrician himself and seemed like he was looking forward to fixing this mess.


LOL ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) LOL

Good thing for seller I guess.

When I was buying my house the Realtor pumped up the fact it had a "New 100 amp service" Great that is worth about $200 to me, tell me the roof is brand new and I will be excited. ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

Bob


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Yup Bob I think we need to step back a few feet in this shot and figure out what they are doing with the neutrals. I do see one landing on the bus on the right that might be from the generator but where are the rest of them? It should be run with the phases. (The magnetic heating thing)


Originally Posted By: David Suelflow
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Wow, what a response! I thought I had a simple question and it appears I’ve opened a can of worms. Here’s a pic of the whole situation, If I could figure out how to put some arrows in it I’d point some things out. Anyway, here goes…



[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/The_Whole_Pic.jpg ]


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



We went a long way to get back here but it appears your first assessment was correct. If they split the busses and put the whites on the isolated one, add a EGC to the main panel, it looks OK. The neutrals that are there seem to be grouped with the generator in and one branch circuit out (upper left) and everything else is nippled over to the main panel in the lower left in one pipe. I suppose he should reidentify that white wire on the breaker too.


Originally Posted By: dhartke
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Great question Jeff and subsequent answers.


Many panel faces have a good tight fit that seem to perform well (especially with the adjusting screws) as a retaining device for the branch circuit breakers. Are any faces rated to also retain the main disconnect breaker or must the main disconnect breaker have a "stand alone" retainer?


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Yes you need a supplimental retaining device besides the cover.


408.16(F) Back-Fed Devices. Plug-in-type overcurrent protection devices or plug-in type-main lug assemblies that are backfed and used to terminate field-installed ungrounded supply conductors shall be secured in place by an additional fastener that requires other than a pull to release the device from the mounting means on the panel.


Originally Posted By: dhartke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Thanks Greg.


Originally Posted By: roconnor
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or a Bonded Neutral Generator, which hasn?t been identified ? big difference.


Just my opinion and 2-nickels ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong