Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I agree with the bonding issue.
The conductors are to small for 100 amps but this is a sub panel and we do not know the size of the breaker at the service panel feeding this sub panel.
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: Roger Petersen This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I see a ground screw to a strap but the picture is from the wrong side so we cannot see if it is bonded. What size is the feeder and whay type of conductor? Aluminum or Copper? It will make a difference.
Originally Posted By: Roger Petersen This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The posted photo suggests that the panel in question is a sub panel. If this is the case, the neutral and equipment grounds should be kept separate. In addition, the only bar that should be bonded would be the equipment ground bar. All neutrals should be on an isolated ungrounded bar. The service cable is in question due to lack of information. The picture cannot tell you the whole story. The forum will need to know what size and what material. If we were to get technical, we would also want to know how far away this alleged sub panel is from the main for a voltage drop calculation. As everyone knows who has electrical experience, there is much more to it than reading a book. Experience along with proper education is a must for any competent inspection personnel.
Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
It sure looks bonded, but (as mentioned) we can’t really see whether the bonding strap is connected or not. That jumper bar at the bottom should be removed, creating two isolated bars ( I love panels with this design, very practical). If you then moved all of the equipment grounds to the right side, the bonding strap would stay. Or you could take the strap off and remount it on the other bar and put the equipment grounds over there.
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Roger Petersen wrote:
I see a ground screw to a strap but the picture is from the wrong side so we cannot see if it is bonded. What size is the feeder and whay type of conductor? Aluminum or Copper? It will make a difference.
Regardless of the terminal bars being bonded or not there are ungrounded and grounding conductors on the same terminal bar of a sub panel.
The report should indicate an electrician needs to evaluate the panel.
Copper or Aluminum, either way they are not 100 amp conductors and they do not need to be if as David has said are protected with a 50 amp breaker.
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
rzimmerman wrote:
OK this appears to be a Generator back-up panel.
Questions?
Why would the main be a 100 amp and the gen only a 60?
Could this not cause a problem down the road?
Should not the lowest possible feed set the panel size?
David has pointed out the breakers feeding this panel are 50 amp so we can think of the 60 and 100 amp breakers as only switches to choose normal or emergency power.
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: Roger Petersen This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
BBadger Wrote:
I believe this was stated in my last post. Again, more information would be needed to make the appropriate determination. If we were to make assumptions about this panel we would be here for weeks bantering back and forth about what if and so forth. I am starting to feel as though my accurate statement is being picked apart by those of you who feel the need to be the ultimate authority. Please keep in mind that although a picture may be worth a thousand words it will often hide the obvious.
Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
[quote=“jpope”]
The report should indicate an electrician needs to correct the panel.
We've already evaluated this panel and determined that it is improper
Quite right, although I usually say to have the electrcian make "all needed repairs" to put it on him to take a look around while he's in there. He'll be the last guy to take a look, and that's (supposed to be) his specialty. While making repairs and moving things around it's always possible he'll see something that I could not. The same goes for the other trades as well.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
of Bob’s posts, I rarely have an opportunity to correct any of his comments
On another note. Can any breaker be used to energize a panel or does it have to be listed for that purpose? We're all assuming that this panel box is "back-fed" through that 100 amp breaker and hopefully not through the 60 amp breaker.
What about this locking device. . .
Both the 100 amp and 60 amp, 240 volt breakers appear to be locked open. And this whole thing is fed off a 50 amp breaker??
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
That is the transfer device. When the 100a is on they run off of “utility” (see the sticker), flip it over to the 60 and they run off the genny. The metal doodad is the interlock device that keeps both from being on at once. It is a crude but effective transfer switch. The thing that defines a back feeding breaker in the clip that locks it into the panel, so it won’t fall out and expose the energized contacts.
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
BTW since this is a transfer panel that is not switching the neutral you do not reground the neutral on the transferred side so it will be treated as a regular sub for the grounding bus (separate).
The generator will not have the neutral bonded either. That is the way most portable generators ship.
I have some pictures from a seminar (somewhere) if this “bonding the generator” thing is still confusing
