Breaker rating

I have a #14 wire size on a 30 amp breaker. I will be calling this out as undersized, I read the label on the breaker a little bit closer this time and it said 1 #8-114 or 2#10-114.
What does the 114 stand for?

Sorry I noticed I circled the wrong one, its the wire I’m holding, and 2 breakers down.

I can’t really tell from the photo but it should say something like one #8-#14 or two #10-#14.

Does that breaker serve the A/C coompressor? It is quite possibly fine.

That’s what I thought it said at first as well, but if you zoom in it says #10-114. If it did say that how is a #14 or even a #12 ok for a 30 amp breaker?

No AC or heat pump, it wasn’t labeled. why would it be fine? because the AC only draws a certain amount of amperage?

Maybe this will help…

I looked again, that is what it says (#8-#14), so why is a #14 ok on a 30 amp breaker? can someone help out this home inspector?

This is what Square D says:
Hi Brad,

Thank you for contacting Schneider Electric.*

So We are right that the reason why this 30A also accept (1)14# Wire cause the same terminal type with the same wire range is being used by lower Amp breaker 15-30A to be specific. So it will depend on the customer on what wire size they are going to put depending on how big the load will be.

You can check this link as reference:*
On the front face of some 15, 20 and 30A, HOM circuit breaker are wire symbols showing 1 and 2 wires. What do those symbols mean?

I still don’t understand how this is acceptable, wont the breaker allow 30 amps on a #14 wire under certain conditions?

Yes, the breaker will allow 30 amps to flow, but that may be what is needed to allow a motor or compressor to start. Once running the current draw will drop down to a fraction of the startup current.

To verify the breaker and wire size for an A/C unit is easy. Read the dataplate on the unit. It will state minimum circuit ampacity which determines the wire size and the maximum OCP which is the breaker or fuse size.

It seems the Nachi training program needs a serious revision if it is not teaching this basic material and allowing people to reach the CPI or CMI level without this knowledge. This material needs to be referenced in both the electrical and HVAC portion of the training.

There is no A.C. (as stated above). There is no entry in the legend for this circuit. I saw that this is an HACR breaker. Apparently Schneider Electric needs the same training as you mentioned.
So this is a HACR breaker that is being utilized for something other than a A.C. which would seem to me to present overheating scenarios of this conductor? does that sound right?
I apologize for my incompetence and just wish to further my education by utilizing this forum.

Just write up your concerns and send the friggin report.:smiley:
" We noted several issues with the electrical service panels…ie…(You name a few)…
Recommend further evaluation and repair by a licensed electrical contractor."*

Additional knowledge is tough to come by sometimes on the Nachi forum.

You didn’t supply enought info as to what the 30 amp was going to.
If it isn’t going to an ac unit just write it up.

A HACR breaker just means it is suitable for use with HVAC units. It is not limited to heating, A/C or refrigeration usage.

My comment was directed at the association that does not prepare its members with adequate knowledge to do the job. This was just another example of where a CMI or CPI asked a very basic question that should be in the training program. I would expect these questions in the student area, but not from the higher certification levels. It was not a personal attack. As it is now the students can post erroneous defects and they are never corrected, even though the area is supposed to be moderated.

What is the answer then Mr. Port?

As far as the student area it needs to be more like school where assignments are given and graded with feedback.

As far as the training, it needs to give an HI or student the knowledge to prepare themselves to be competent in their reporting. It seems that some are buidling a house without any footing under it. It cannot send out people with slingshots to a gunfight. Membership should be more than paying dues and getting a bumper sticker.

Funny thing is I did know the answer, but it has been buried over the years (has that ever happened to you? or do you remember everything you have been taught?..forever), as I looked at the breaker labeling and did not just assume that the conductor was undersized.
There are many things I’m sure I know and see every day that you don’t, do you think that’s possible?
The above response is the reason many people don’t ask questions on these forums, and search in vain by other means for answers. This thread has well over 100 views but only a couple people responded…what does that tell you?
Was this really the place to lament the lack of training home inspectors have? could you have sent an email to Ben or Nick with suggestions?
I did in the beginning of this thread state there is no A.C., but you chose to ignore that…or did you make a mistake?
As I gain more knowledge (about 1300 inspections so far) I have helped fellow inspectors with questions, sometimes I do see stupid questions, but I feel fortunate to have the answer and I joyfully help, without Lording my knowledge over someone else.

I always thought that if the average electrician was better trained, more professional and conscientious, I wouldn’t have to spend so much time and energy documenting all of the deficiencies in their work.

Folks tend to forget to mind their own houses sometimes when they’re guests in someone else’s

A few things, as mentioned that breaker frame is a standard size that can be constructed with different internal trip components for different ampacities however the clamping mechanism holding the conductor(s) is the same whether it’s a 15, 20, 25, 30 ampere rating.

IMO you were correct to assume that the #14 conductors on a 30 amp CB were incorrect for a few reasons, for one if this were feeding an AC unit in a house it would almost always be 240 volts which means that it would have a 2-pole or two single pole CB’s with handle ties. There are installations where a 30 amp 120 volt circuit can be wired with #14 conductors but for the most part you will almost never see that in an average dwelling.

One last thing, no one should be discouraged from asking questions.