Bulldog panel question

[wdecker (William Decker, CMI, IL. Lic. 450.002240)]

While this question is not specific to the Pushmatic Bulldog, what do you think?

The copper stranded counductors, where connected to the breakers and neutral bus had some strands cut away in order to help the conductors fit in the holes.

OK or not? I would say no.

Also, about 6 splices in the panel and only 2 of the required 6 screws holding it.

Seller’s agent produced a letter from an ‘electrician’ (no license number or insurance cert on the letterhead) saying that the panel complied with NEC and local codes. Also stated that there were no splices in the panel.

I, being the jerk I am, showed her the splices. She could not seem to understand that there was anything other than ‘code’ and a letter from G-d only know who (he was obviously no electrician).

Comments. How should I write this one. BTW: I hate (personal experience) Pushmatics.

[wdecker (William Decker, CMI, IL. Lic. 450.002240)]

Come on, guys. I need and answer.

[tallen (Ted Allen)]

As far as I know.

You can not trim wires.

Splices are OK as long as it’s not 2 hots, neutrals or grounds spliced into one (like a pigtail) fed from a breaker or neutral/ ground bar ie. one wire feeding two circuts.

All of the panel cover screws should be there.

Hope this helps.

Hopefully one of the resident sparkies will chime in to correct me if I am wrong.

[wdecker (William Decker, CMI, IL. Lic. 450.002240)]

Tnanks, Todd. Oh, and thanks again for the convention admission.

Owe you one and one half.

[tallen (Ted Allen)]

My pleasure.

[jpope (Jeffrey Pope, CMI, CHI, CPI, ICC)]

Will,

The splices in the box are not a problem, however, reducing the wire size by trimming strands is not okay.

I’m sure one of our experts can give you a reference for that. . .

[tallen (Ted Allen)]

@jpope

Will,

The splices in the box are not a problem, however, reducing the wire size by trimming strands is not okay.

I’m sure one of our experts can give you a reference for that. . .

Jeff,
are you saying it is okay to have one wire from a breaker feed 2 circuts??

[tallen (Ted Allen)]

I was just looking at your pics and I notice that there are wires from one buss crossing the other buss.

I am thinking this is not OK. I think they sould be routed around the bottom of the panel instead.

Where are the Sparkies??

[jtedesco1 (Joe Tedesco)]

See Table 8 in Chapter 9 in the NEC for the number of strands, either as one or 7, 19, 37, etc.

NO TRIMMING IS ALLOWED EVER!

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:mrgreen:

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http://www.reporthost.com/tedesco/

[jpope (Jeffrey Pope, CMI, CHI, CPI, ICC)]

@tallen

Jeff,
are you saying it is okay to have one wire from a breaker feed 2 circuts??

No. I can’t see the pictures when they’re attached using the ATTACH code. I’m assuming you can see two circuits spliced to one?

I was speaking generally about splices in a panel box.

[tallen (Ted Allen)]

@jpope

No. I can’t see the pictures when they’re attached using the ATTACH code. I’m assuming you can see two circuits spliced to one?

I was speaking generally about splices in a panel box.

No, I can’t see the pics very well myself, I just wanted to make sure I understood your post.

Thanks.

[jpope (Jeffrey Pope, CMI, CHI, CPI, ICC)]

No, I mean I can’t see pictures at all. I only see text in Wills original post.

[jfarsetta (Joe Farsetta)]

Todd,

If you are asking if two cables entering an electrical panel can have their hots co-joined with each other, and a third conductor co-jojned with them going to a circuit breaker, then the answer is yes, it can.

Was this your question?

[tallen (Ted Allen)]

So, two circuts, one for the bedrooms and one for the living room can be spliced together and attached to one breaker??

That is what I wanted clarified.

[tallen (Ted Allen)]

I goto go. see you in 2 hours.

[brian_winkle]

@tallen

So, two circuts, one for the bedrooms and one for the living room can be spliced together and attached to one breaker??

That is what I wanted clarified.

Yes, thats the only way to do it without double tapping when there are no more breakers. It’s not really two circuits, it’s now one. Think of it as adding to an existing circuit, only the splice is in the panel instead of a jct. box.

Now that doesn’t mean the circuit is not overloaded, but it would be beyond your scope to be the judge of that. Adding to a circuit doesn’t neccesarily mean the load has increased. A load calculation would need to be performed on the circuit(s) in question to verify if they are sufficient for the loads present.

[Greg_Fretwell]

@tallen

So, two circuts, one for the bedrooms and one for the living room can be spliced together and attached to one breaker??

That is what I wanted clarified.

The bedroom may be a problem (AFCI) but there is no problem with spliting a branch circuit and sending it off in different directions.

[tallen (Ted Allen)]

Thanks folks. :D:D

I have always recommended a sparkie check things out when I have found 2 or more runs of cable pigtailed to one breaker.
The reason is, that back some time ago, I wired lots and lots of homes and cannot remember ever having to do such a thing.

Am I just being a pain in the butt for having it checked out???

[tallen (Ted Allen)]

@brian winkle

Yes, thats the only way to do it without double tapping when there are no more breakers. It’s not really two circuits, it’s now one. Think of it as adding to an existing circuit, only the splice is in the panel instead of a jct. box.

Now that doesn’t mean the circuit is not overloaded, but it would be beyond your scope to be the judge of that. Adding to a circuit doesn’t neccesarily mean the load has increased. A load calculation would need to be performed on the circuit(s) in question to verify if they are sufficient for the loads present.

I understand what you are talking about. It just seems odd to me that when a home is being wired the “home run” is for one breaker and is one circuit and if there are 2 “home runs” going to one breaker something is fishy.

Of course, I am the paranoid type.:mrgreen: