Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson
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A sad story from CNN http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/09/27/fatal.fire.ap/index.html
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Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City
A sad story from CNN http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/09/27/fatal.fire.ap/index.html
Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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Terrible. Part of my first foray into self-employment had me contracting to install those for a friend’s company. On bedrooms they would only install “escape windows”, which could be opened by flipping the deadbolt lock open (no key needed from the inside). Then they swung out like a door; out of the way, full size opening to get through.
If you see a house with burglar bars and they don't have escape windows, or if a key is required to open them from the inside, write 'em up as a potential hazard.
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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If a key, tool or “special knowledge” is required to open or remove those bars, they are not allowed.
From the old Standard Building Code.
B1005.5 SECURITY BARS, GRILLES AND GRATES. Each sleeping room or room with a required exit door in a residential occupancy that has security bars, grilles, grates or similar devices installed shall have at least one emergency escape and rescue opening.
B1005.4 EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE OPENINGS
- B1005.4.1 Where required. Every sleeping room located on the first, second, and third story or within basements of Group R occupancies shall have at least one exterior emergency escape and rescue opening.
- - EXCEPTIONS:
- - - 1. Buildings equipped with an approved automatic sprinkler system.
- - - 2. Sleeping rooms provided with a door to a corridor having access to two remote exits in opposite directions.
- - - 3. The emergency escape and rescue opening may open onto a balcony within an atrium provided the balcony provides access to an exit and the dwelling unit or sleeping room has a means of egress which is not open to the atrium.
- B1005.4.2 Operational constraints. The emergency escape and rescue opening shall be operable from the inside to a full clear opening without the use of separate tools or keys. The net clear opening dimensions shall be the result of normal operation of the opening.
- B1005.4.3 Maximum height from floor. The emergency escape and rescue opening shall have a sill height of not more than 44 inches (1118 mm) above the floor.
- B1005.4.4 Minimum size. The minimum net clear opening height dimension shall be 24 inches (610 mm). The minimum net clear opening width dimension shall be 20 inches (508 mm). The minimum net clear opening area shall be 5.7 sq ft (0.53 m?).
- - EXCEPTION: Ground floor openings shall be permitted to have a minimum net clear opening of 5.0 sq ft (0.47 m?).
- B1005.4.5 Security devices. Bars, grilles, grates, or similar devices shall be permitted provided the minimum size and operational constraints of such devices are in accordance with B1005.4.2, B1005.4.3, and B1005.4.4.
From the Florida Building Code.
1005.4.5 Security and hurricane protection devices. Bars, grilles, grates or similar security devices shall be permitted provided the minimum size and operational constraints of such devices are in accordance with 1005.4.2, 1005.4.3, and 1005.4.4. The temporary installation or closure of storm shutters, panels, and other approved hurricane protection devices shall be permitted on emergency escape and rescue openings in Group R occupancies during the threat of a storm. Such devices shall not be required to comply with the operational constraints of 1005.4.2, 1005.4.3 and 1005.4.4. While such protection is provided, at least one means of escape from the dwelling or dwelling unit shall be provided. The means of escape shall be within the first floor of the dwelling or dwelling unit and shall not be located within a garage. Occupants in any part of the dwelling or dwelling unit shall be able to access the means of escape without passing through a lockable door not under their control.
A 5 or 6 members of a family died from a fire last weekend following the hurricane when they had their shutters up and there was no escape and no rescue options. This is a very recognized risk down here, even being addressed in the code.
From the IRC.
R310.4 Bars, grills, covers and screens. Bars, grills, covers, screens or similar devices are permitted to be placed over emergency escape and rescue openings, bulkhead enclosures, or windowwells that serve such openings, provided the minimum net clear opening size complies with Sections R310.1.1 to R310.1.3, and such devices shall be releasable or removable from the inside without the use of a key, tool or force greater than that which is required for normal operation of the escape and rescue opening.
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Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: rclayton
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Be careful with the wording in this situation. If you inspect a home with burglar bars that are not equipped with a “quick release” mechanism, you should mention the potential hazard and recommend that they are replaced with “quick release” style bars. If you recommend that the bars are removed and someone breaks into the home you can be held liable.
cya
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Not if you use the word “or”, as in remove them OR replace with …
Now, you are TELLING them to do one OR the other. If not, you could end up trying to defend why you DID NOT tell them to remove them, when they died in the fire because they were more afraid of having something stolen.
I tell them, flat out, DO NOT LEAVE THESE BARS IN PLACE. Then, and only then, do I tell them the next step, to replace them with bars which are removable from the inside without the use of keys, tools, or special knowledge.
First things first, get those sucker off there!
Or, as I have done several times in the past in my reports (yes, I write this down in the report): 'This is Fry Room 1' (and you thought it was Bedroom 1) and 'This is Fry Room 2', then I add "because if there is a fire, no one in this room is getting out alive.'
Yes, that is blunt, but it is also effective.
Like the sheriff telling people (during evacuation for hurricanes) "No, I CANNOT FORCE you to leave, but if you do not leave, I want the names of YOUR NEXT OF KIN.", blunt, to the point, and usually effective.
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Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson
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Is theft protection really within the scope (and the expectations) of a home inspection? I mean, you don’t reccomend installing burglar alarms, do you? Also, bare in mind that you are making recommendations, not requirements. Even still, if you were sued some small minded moron, I think you could show the judge and jury the code text from all model codes, and perhaps dig up a few stories about a whole family turning into crispy critters, and I think you would win.
It angers me beyond belief that the society in which we live has us frightened to the point where you don't want to recommend safety enhancements for fear of being litigated. 
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Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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I would always point out that the bars are a safety hazard and can be replaced with escape bars. I have included a link to a similar but local story in reports to demonstrate the need. We should NEVER not tell someone about a major safety hazard. You can be sued for anything. Do you think any court is going to find you liable for a theft when you show the reason for recommendation being DEATH?
What is sad is that the only reason this story made news is it was 6 people. At least a few times a year in DC alone, people die trapped behind bars. There has been a thread about this before.
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: rwashington
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Smoke detectors were not working. Interesting last line of this story. Another important safety feature. I wonder where they were located?
Notwithstanding, what a waste of precious life!
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Richard W Washington
www.rwhomeinspections.com
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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The last year in which stats have been analyzed was 2001. (does not include september 11th attack) The US has one of the highest fire death rates in the industrialized world. Of nearly 400,000 residential fires a year there are on average 4,000 deaths, over 250,000 injuries, and billions in property damage.
4,000 may only be 1%, but think about the following. 90% of United States homes have at least 1 smoke alarm. But the 10% with no alarms account for over 50% of the fatalities. And of the 400,000 fires about 50% have No alarms and 30% more have no working alarms. As you can see, the problem is not just that there are no alarms out there, but that there not enough working alarms.
FACT: having working smoke alarms in your home more than doubles your chances of survival.
Fact: The vast majority of fatalities are not from burns, but from the smoke. Early detection, especially in sleep, is key to survival.
Fact. All the early warning can mean squat if security bars keep you from fresh air. I would bet the people in the story did not burn, but rather died from inhaling products of combustion. Statistically I am probably right.
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I don’t have a link to any news accounts, but while I was still installing bars 4-5 kids aged 2 - 13 died in house fire in south Mississippi because of the bars. While the neighbors tried in vain to pull them off, the kids were reaching out through the bars, screaming for help. I can’t imagine what that must have been like.
The bars were home-made jobs, simple and strong with no escapes. The fire started at the stove.