Originally Posted By: rwand
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Hi Robert,
Kudos to Claude he provides more info than anyone. Thank you.
Cheers,
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
Hi Robert,
Kudos to Claude he provides more info than anyone. Thank you.
Cheers,
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
This great and very important to all inspectors in Canada.
Please Send copies of their to all your friends .
We must know what is going on .
This is yours and my future.
This started to happen in Florida and some Nachi inspectors started to ask questions down there and WOW information is changeling ever day .
The powers to be have found out they have missed much, left out much and they really are trying to get it sorted out .
It is easier to fix Any concerns before the mistake is made .
If this must be put on a slow down procedure till it is correct fine lets get it done properly the first time with all inspectors included .
Correct. Thank you Claude I only wish you could tell the rest of the Story.
Roy Cooke sr
Originally Posted By: rwand
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Fwiw
I am not comfortable whatsoever with Lawyers, Realtors, insurers, et al being part of the certifying process. Strange choice of bedfellows. Anyone else concerned with this aspect?
Cheers,
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
Originally Posted By: clawrenson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Why do some people keep insisting that this process is news to them? Most likely because they chose not to join an association, may not have been a member, too busy or too new to possibly to care at the time ? and this list goes on.
Since it seems to be publicly available (Canadian Tax Dollars at work) and noted as verified below. Seems NACHI Canada needs to get up to speed. (No disrespect intended ? that is why I am posting this information). I am tired of hearing about people being kept in the dark, conspiracy theories and the like. This process even started much earlier here is another link - to some of the roots of the national initiative. Web link - http://www.agt.net/public/moemad/national_1.html
This information has been available in press releases, studies, documents and discussed at AGM?s both provincially and nationally through CAHPI and CAHPI affiliate associations, national meetings, local meetings, CREA and OREA and other provincial realtor associations and even right here on NACHI well over the past year. Not just today ? but if your check back through the records even with the posting of National Initiative Phase 2 ? note since the year 2000. Believe me there is even more!
Here are two to start:
Hiring a Home Inspector
http://www.cmhc.ca/en/burema/gesein/abhose/abhose_ce35b.cfm
National Initiative Phase 2 (Date 2000)
http://www.cmhc.ca/publications/en/rh-pr/tech/tech00-131-e.html
The Canadian home and building inspection industry has been very fragmented, with few standards, little portability, no national code of ethics, etc. This research outlines progress made since 1999 to rectify these deficiencies, and finds that organizational structures have been created to move forward, and that great progress has been made in establishing national standards within the industry. CMHC continues to play an important role in these initiatives.
If you go to the CMHC website and do a search with ?home inspector? this information can readily be found. I suggest printing out the following: #3, #4, #6, and #14. Read them ? I would consider them mandatory readings for ALL home inspectors in Canada.
1.
63235
About Your House : Getting Your House Ready to Sell
A handy guide to the key things you need to do before you try to sell your house.
FREE
2.
62839
About Your House: Hiring a Home Inspector
What a detailed inspection entails and how to choose an inspector for your home.
FREE
3.
63555
Investigating Claims Against Home and Property Inspectors
This document is part of the Research Highlights - Technical Series.
FREE
4.
63172
Mandatory Home Inspections on Resale Homes in Ontario
This document is part of the Research Highlights. Technical Series.
FREE
5.
62843
Homebuying Information Package
A starter kit for first-time homebuyers, to help you succeed with your biggest investment.
FREE
6.
63547
Canadian Home Inspectors and Building Officials National Initiative Phase Two: Development of National Certification and Accreditation Models
This document is part of the Research Highlights - Technical Series.
FREE
7.
62266
About Your House : Before You Start Assessing the Comfort and Safety of Your Home?s Mechanical Systems
Ensure that your mechanical systems are operating safely and efficiently.
FREE
8.
62264
About Your House : Before You Start an Energy Efficient Retrofit ? The Building Envelope
Improving the outer layer of your house can result in a better insulated home that is easier to heat.
FREE
9.
62260
About Your House : Before You Start Repairing and Replacing Materials ? Exterior Walls
Repairing or replacing exterior wall finishes will protect and preserve the durability and structure of the home.
FREE
10.
62254
About Your House : Before You Start Renovating Your Bathroom
Use this fact sheet to check for problems before you renovate.
11.
62268
About Your House : Before You Start a New Addition
Inspect your home?s structure and mechanical systems to be sure they can support a new addition.
FREE
12.
61062
Complying With Residential Ventilation Requirements in the 1995 National Building Code
How housing professionals can comply with the Building Code?s ventilation requirements.
12.95
13.
61065
Investigating, Diagnosing & Treating Your Damp Basement
Symptoms, sources and solutions related to damp basements that can result in mold and other health hazards.
9.95
14.
62629
Canadian Home Inspectors & Building Officials Building Officials
This document is part of the Research Highlights?Technical Series.
FREE
15.
62114
Homeowner?s Inspection Checklist
Conduct your own inspection to keep your home in top condition.
19.95
--
Ontario Home Inspections Inc.
Originally Posted By: clawrenson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| Quote: |
| Fwiw
I am not comfortable whatsoever with Lawyers, Realtors, insurers, et al being part of the certifying process. Strange choice of bedfellows. Anyone else concerned with this aspect? Cheers, Raymond Wand Alton, ON |
--
Ontario Home Inspections Inc.
Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| clawrenson wrote: |
| Why do some people keep insisting that this process is news to them? Most likely because they chose not to join an association, may not have been a member, too busy or too new to possibly to care at the time ? and this list goes on. |
Claude I do believe that the questionnaire that Bill asked the NACHI members was not sent to the CAHPI members at that time and still might not be sent to them.
Can you tell us why NACHI members and non members received the questionnaire . Has it been given to OAHI members by any one else beside Raymond and if so when . Strange you get upset when we question why Many Home inspectors in Canada get ignored . Just because I and others now choose to not belong to OAHI because of lack of information we are not bad. You seem to jump on us for a nasty post but tend to ignore those in power who do the same thing . I admit I am far from a good boy but there are others who say far more thing and far far worst who you do not challenge . not only on this forum but others . You say why not send A private email if you have a complaint well I can not remember ever receiving a private email from you on that subject .
Roy Cooke sr
Originally Posted By: rwand
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi Claude
Here are some other important links. I have posted these before but worth repeating. The info is out there you just have to know where to find it.
And yes I like the First Nations certification council set-up.
http://www.cahi.ca/occupational.html
http://www.cahi.ca/pdf/CHIBO.pdf
http://www.cahi.ca/pdf/common.pdf
http://www.cahi.ca/pdf/PBO.pdf
http://www.cahi.ca/pdf/CMHC.pdf
http://www.cahi.ca/pdf/HPI.pdf
Thanks for links above.
Regards
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
Originally Posted By: Dave Bottoms
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…
Originally Posted By: clawrenson
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First for clarification what NACHI questionnaire?
Personally I do not have the answer to the issue of what questionnaires were sent to whom? I received one regarding PDI's, and my general understanding almost 2000 were sent out and their was about 300 responses.
Now lets use that regarding those that choose to participate, read or be bothered by such information. First that represents a very low response rate, and it also indicates the depths of apathy of members to bother to answer or read the material.
I will use another case in point - another document was sent out to about 2000 more inspectors regarding their input on another survey for the national initiative for "task analysis" related to the home inspector national occupational standards almost a year ago. Once again nationally 60 responses were received.
Time and time again information can be broadcasted in many ways , shapes and forms - but unfortunately it seems that apathy still rules. My take is it very unfortunate if those that choose not to respond - take offense to it after the fact - seem that some may still feel that they were not included. That is not to say or assume that everyone was included. But the message seems pretty obvious.
Actually - I am not really upset - however I just get tired of some people that seem to insist they have been left out! If you get my point - it may have been their own choice.
So how should we handle the new non-inspectors that wannabe inspectors tomorrow? Should they have a chance to rewrite and change everything tomorrow? or especially after 6 to 7 years of work? I hope you see my point. How does NACHI or any other association handle it? Life of the association goes on - and so does the association standards - they just don't change over night.
BTW: This message was not directed at you Roy - it was a blanket post for "a few" that seem to keep insisting that information was supressed from them. I am not trying to diminish their viewpoint - I am simply offering another side of the story!
--
Ontario Home Inspections Inc.
Originally Posted By: rbrown1
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Claude,
Thank you for all your posts, you have been very forthcoming and helpful.
--
Bob Brown
President NACHI Du-Ka Chapter ON. Canada
NACHI Cell: 1-484-429-5465
ACISS Home Inspections
bob@aciss.biz
Certified Adult Training Services
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com
info@certifiedadulttrainingservices.com
Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thanks Bob I will try and ignore those who choose not to help .
Roy Cooke sr A Not Confused Happy NACHI Member .
Originally Posted By: rbrown1
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Claude,
I can certainly see your point, no questions there However, to define "newbies" would be to state they have just joined an (any)association or who have just now stepped into the business.
When I post (for the most part) I am asking so that information can be brought forward to many on here.
There are more people who simply read here and don't take the time to post. It would be great if we could get as much information up front and on this board so that many can see and those who wish to HELP get this out to others can.
I too agree that too many people DO NOT take part in many of what is offered and it is extremely difficult to police an OPEN industry as it stands today. By saying "to police" I simply mean that it is impossible to monitor who is really in this industry, who is simply a bystander and who are getting into this everyday.
As this is OUR tax dollars paying for all of this, is there, or has there been any public campaign to inform anyone. Not all new or old HI's are involved in any association. How do we get the word out to them?
If this question has already been addressed, then slap me silly!
Regards,
--
Bob Brown
President NACHI Du-Ka Chapter ON. Canada
NACHI Cell: 1-484-429-5465
ACISS Home Inspections
bob@aciss.biz
Certified Adult Training Services
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com
info@certifiedadulttrainingservices.com
Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| clawrenson wrote: |
| First for clarification what NACHI questionnaire?
Now lets use that regarding those that choose to participate, read or be bothered by such information. First that represents a very low response rate, and it also indicates the depths of apathy of members to bother to answer or read the material. Actually - I am not really upset - however I just get tired of some people that seem to insist they have been left out! If you get my point - it may have been their own choice. So how should we handle the new non-inspectors that wannabe inspectors tomorrow? Should they have a chance to rewrite and change everything tomorrow? or especially after 6 to 7 years of work? I hope you see my point. How does NACHI or any other association handle it? Life of the association goes on - and so does the association standards - they just don't change over night. BTW: This message was not directed at you Roy - it was a blanket post for "a few" that seem to keep insisting that information was supressed from them. I am not trying to diminish their viewpoint - I am simply offering another side of the story! |
This was the Questions I was talking about that Bill sent out to NACHI .
Just go to http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=64493929865
Claude I to was not talking about you but it seems to me if I and many others had not kept asking questions I and many others would not know much of what is happening . I do not think it is the inspectors Job to be searching in all the small corners of the web to see what future changes might be coming .
I am so glad YOU at least have given us a much information. I and others listened to Bill in Kingston closely and did not understand that CAHPI/OAHI had control of all inspectors having to join them to get to the next level.
Something BIG sounds like it is coming down suddenly that could effect my ability to make a living and I would like to have information so I can protect my and others future .
I am not talking about the future might be inspectors I am talking about those who now and have in the past making their living in this industry .
Wondering in Brighton Ont . Roy Cooke sr.
NO malice intended . I am a better home inspector then A letter writer.
Originally Posted By: clawrenson
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Roy you have an honest concern shared by many. CAHPI and the National Initiative should not be perceived as trying to take your livelihood or any other home inspectors livelihood away. That is not the intention. If you review the purpose and mission of the plan you will see it was to unite home inspectors under a common certification system, assist home inspectors in their pursuit of education and training and to instill confidence of the public in recognizing an unregulated industry.
At best the home inspection sector is highly fragmented, with a number of home inspection associations, and inspection standards and certification credentials. Inspection association standards and different levels of qualification present another significant difference in the credibility of the fragmented variations in the availability and quality of home inspections.
CAHPI was viewed by CMHC and others as the largest home inspection association in Canada that could best help lead the fruition of the National Initiative. Some fear and apprehension is part of the way humans react to change. On the other side there are many level headed people (committee members) and government representatives (observers) both supporting and observing how this is being done. Everything is above board and must be above board or you know what will hit the fan.
With the successful completion of the National Occupational Standards in May 2001 the next step was to conduct a comparative analysis of current curriculum and training materials; identify private and public training providers; do a gap analysis to see what if anything was missing; develop a national certification model; develop a basic implementation plan; and provide a framework to conduct a complete program review.
Hopefully we can agree that "associations" are not the enemy. Currently any individual can print a business card and with a bit of luck and good connections provide home inspection services. This definitely sends a very clear message to our own inspection sector weakness. Any body can become one! Do they comply with SOP? Code of Ethics? Who monitors there behaviour or responsibilty, not to mention accountability? Furthermore what about the unwitting public?
So the National Initiative should not be viewed as the government backed paradigm trying to take your livelihood away - it should be viewed as mere tidying up - house cleaning to assure that every home inspector operates under the same inspection standards. Than and only than will home inspectors be equated to being on the same comparable level as other professions.
--
Ontario Home Inspections Inc.
Originally Posted By: lewens
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Unfortunately Claude it seems that instead of uniting the industry under a common code of ethics and standards of practice we are to be united under a common banner. The problem with that is the politics involved are such that I for one do not want to have an association shoved down my throat that I have no wish to belong to. It smacks of a money grab on the part of CAHPI
If this is not the case why doesn’t CAHPI step aside and let an independent board oversee the application of the certification process? Surely this can not be offensive to an association who’s only expressed concern here is to further the standardization of the inspection industry? Would it not be better to have a member of each association sit on the certification board to ensure impartiality to all home inspectors in Canada? I find it hard to believe that anyone not versed in the construction trades will be able to accurately asses the qualifications of a home inspector without many hours of training and much expense. Surely it can’t be hard to find a good number of qualified home inspectors from across Canada who would be acceptable to all prospective exam takers.
I for one will be screaming long and loud to my MP, MPP and the Minister for housing as well as any other person I can think of. Don’t think that just because this is said to be a done deal we as an industry cannot do something about it. We may be laid back Canadians but I have been legislated out of business once and I will be damned if I’m going to let them ram something down my throat again. I think there are a whole whack of us who don’t know what is going on here and the campaign has just started.
Just my 12.5 cents worth.
Larry
–
Just my usual 12.5 cents
From The Great White North Eh?
NACHI-CAN
www.aciss-brant.com
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com/
Originally Posted By: clawrenson
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Larry you are welcome to think what you want - but until you have the entire message, you may be prematurely jumping to conclusions. Albeit the final report is not even issued.
On the other side of the issue - who or what has assured you that such is in fact the case?
Are you dead positive CAHPI is certifying or is it an independent council?
Don't read me wrong you are certainly entitled to express your opinion(s). But some have asked a few questions - and I am only expressing my best opinion too!
I take it from reading a number of "bottom lines" in part of this thread that home inspectors should certify home inspectors. Hmm....perhaps students should certify students - and do away the educators and institutions! But on the opposite side - some of the same people seem concerned about the bias creeping into the process. So much for arms-length independence to assure an unbiased certification process. Sort of reminds me of "private" training institutions that certify its students. Who certifies the trainers? After all we are dealing with an unregulated industry are we not? As stated earlier - who certifies the certifiers? Are we fearful of other real credible professionals doing that job? Not some real estate sales person, or insurance sales person to call it like it is. There are a lot of other professionals that can assist in this process.
Now lets take another view by the CAN P9 (ISO) process. Certification program: The system that relates to specific products, processes or services to which the same particular standards and rules, and the same procedure, apply. Such a program uses or is operated by a third-party body, or organization, and the program authorizes the use of a certification mark or certificates of conformity as evidence of conformity.
Certification body: An impartial body, or organization, possessing the necessary competence to develop, promulgate, finance, and operate a certification program, and to conduct certifications of conformity.
Where in this process is the need for home inspectors to certify home inspectors without there being a potential for bias to be raised?
I hope that we agree that a certification body may operate its certification activities or it may oversee these activities carried out on its behalf by other bodies, asuch as an independent certification council.
As I stated earlier the FNNBOA now uses an independent certification council with success based on setting up a strict and onerous review criteria based on the occupational standards, education and experience and peer review. The inspector either meets it and is assessed certain points or fails the criteria and the gaps are identified and reported to the applicant. It is a fair, non-threatening and unbias process.
No one is forcing anyone to become certified or join CAHPI - if that is your real fear. But than again you may not be able to reap the benefits through the other professions that have aligned themselves to recognize that national certification standard. So that may be your own personal business choice. That choice is yours and definitely not mine to determine. I personally would not slam that door based strictly on assumptions - but welcome new opportunities to grow my business.
In closing I am obliged to cease from further posts on this forum regarding this matter of what may be or could be - lets at least read the final edition. All it seems to do is draw out over reactions to possibilities! So from now on I will stop at this juncture and not read anything more into this until the final edition is released.
--
Ontario Home Inspections Inc.
Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| clawrenson wrote: |
|
In closing I am obliged to cease from further posts on this forum regarding this matter of what may be or could be - lets at least read the final edition. All it seems to do is draw out over reactions to possibilities! So from now on I will stop at this juncture and not read anything more into this until the final edition is released. |
Thanks Claude I and others sure do appreciate that you at least have tried to give some information on what the future could hold .
I to have misgiving with any association with OAHI so I guess we have to be all be prepared to make what ever stand we think is correct.
Thanks Again.... Roy Cooke sr Brighton Ont .
Royshomeinspection
Originally Posted By: dhadler
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Have to agree with Larry on this one. I for one do not think having a group or board or any other government agency will do our industry any good. All I see is more red tape, more money out of pocket and like most big organizations or government involvement more people getting screwed and much larger $ mismanagement that if we had not at all.
Just look around…I rest my case.
Has the all the bureaucracy stopped the shysters in other regulated industries...not a chance, never will. That's life folks, might as well get used to it. I love free enterprise, IT WORKS! The bad guys get weeded out in the end. True, some people do get screwed in the process, but you cannot protect everybody from getting it in the ear, it just won't happen.
Look at the scandals in our own government, GREAT SCOTT!    and these are only the ones that are brought to light. I can't even imagine in my wildest dreams what must go on in that mess.
I like owning and operating my own business and as far as I'm concerned that's my God given right. I don't like anyone sticking there nose in my affairs or telling me what I have to do. If I choose to join an organization such as NACHI, I do (and I must say I'm very glad I did by the way) but it gets my goat when someone tells me I have to join this or that, or else.
That ain't right in my books.
If it turns out that we do require a board or something like it, (as per usual) I agree that it should consist of equal numbers of members from every organization out there, no exceptions. One organization with too much power = TROUBLE.
My therapist would be proud
--
Darrell Hadler
Five Star Home Inspections
Medicine Hat, Alberta CANADA
Originally Posted By: lewens
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You will all notice that no one is coming right out and saying we will not have to join CAHPI to be able to be included in the certification process. I wonder why?
Larry
–
Just my usual 12.5 cents
From The Great White North Eh?
NACHI-CAN
www.aciss-brant.com
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com/
Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| lewens wrote: |
| You will all notice that no one is coming right out and saying we will not have to join CAHPI to be able to be included in the certification process. I wonder why?
Larry |
I have been that route and in My not so humble opinion OAHI/CAHPI's not for the members it is an old boys club. They do not follow their own rules and expect all other to follow the rules . They make it easy to get in and pay lots of money. They make it harder to move up the ladder getting more money all the way . Just think they have huge amounts who try to get into the home inspection industry and Very ,very few get to the top. In about twenty years they have just over 200 members, That have been allowed to achieve the RHI status. I have lots of information . They do as much as possible to undermine what I say unfortunately many others
( Not as outspoken as I also have this info ). I have to agree OAHI/CAHPI is for me most certainly not the association to try and run the future of the Home inspection industry. My thoughts some others might not agree.
Roy Cooke sr Brighton Ont . Royshomeinspection.com
Private email if you want more info please Roycooke@sympatico.ca