Edison Junction Box

Originally Posted By: David Suelflow
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Furnace replaced 2 years ago, circuit breaker added at panel and old fuse box bypassed but old lugs used as connectors (buss?). I’d hate to be the one who sticks one of those fuses in.


Learn something new every day.

![](upload://cTbUXN4SKRKrxZTXKW91iect9Wg.jpeg)


Originally Posted By: tallen
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What would happen if you installed one of those fuses?



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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tallen wrote:
What would happen if you installed one of those fuses?


Well normally, the neutral should pass through unfused and only attached to the other neutral. The hots should go on each side of the socket so it may be fused. In this case, the neutral appears to be attached to one side of the socket, and the hot on the other side.. so installing a fuse would cause a short and the fuse would blow.

Now a light bulb on the other hand, should light up.

Although looking at it again... that might not be the case... but that might be what the original poster had intended to convey...


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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It sure looks like this is just being used as a junction box at this point. The wires seem to be feeding straight through.


There is a splice under the single screw, the attaching screw for the fuse holder is being used as a ground. The neutral connections are right.


This looks like it has a disconnect in the fuse holder but it is bypassed.



The fix would be a metal handy box, a wirenut for the neutral, a motor rated switch for the disconnect and a ground screw to establish the EGC to the <type> AC cable out. $5 and a house call.




Originally Posted By: David Suelflow
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They don?t feed straight through. They attach to each side of the fuse holder, using each as sort of a buss bar. Screw something into the socket and you complete the 30-amp circuit.


Originally Posted By: David Suelflow
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Oh yea, there is also aluminum wiring from here to the furnace.


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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I bet you that is tinned copper, not aluminum. I don’t think they ever made aluminum AC cable.


I also don’t think they are doing anything with that fuse holder. The “out” screw is the rusty one on the bottom with no wire on it.


That is just feeding straight through now.


I imagine they had a problem with the fuse holder and simply bypassed it.


Originally Posted By: tallen
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icon_biggrin.gif



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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Greg Fretwell wrote:
I don't think they ever made aluminum AC cable.


There is some type of aluminum armoured cable in my apartment now between some boxes on the internal walls. Not sure how common it was but someone definately made it.


Originally Posted By: bbadger
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Joey D'Adamo wrote:
Greg Fretwell wrote:
I don't think they ever made aluminum AC cable.


There is some type of aluminum armoured cable in my apartment now between some boxes on the internal walls. Not sure how common it was but someone definately made it.


I can get aluminum armored today in large sizes if I want.

That said are you sure what is in your apartment it is not tin plate cooper as Gregg has mentioned?

The only way to tell is to cut it and look at the core or if you handle wires a lot you can tell buy how easy it bends, AL bends easer than any copper.

Also they never made 14 AWG AL so if it is 14 AWG it is copper.

14 AWG aluminum would only be rated about 10 amps.


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

Originally Posted By: David Suelflow
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I wonder if sparks would fly if you throw the switch?


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Nothing would happen if you threw the switch or even if you put the fuse in. The load side is not conneced to anything. I suspect by the fuses on top of the box that they had problems and that is why they bypassed the “hot” side completely. I had to replace a disconnect like that in my house because it was not working. Never thought about just jumpering it out icon_wink.gif


Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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bbadger wrote:

I can get aluminum armored today in large sizes if I want.

That said are you sure what is in your apartment it is not tin plate cooper as Gregg has mentioned?

The only way to tell is to cut it and look at the core or if you handle wires a lot you can tell buy how easy it bends, AL bends easer than any copper.

Also they never made 14 AWG AL so if it is 14 AWG it is copper.

14 AWG aluminum would only be rated about 10 amps.


I'm pretty sure. The wires are 12 gauge and the building was built in the early 70s which is a bit late for tinned copper, I think? The majority of the suite is wired with conduit and the wires pulled through that are definately aluminum (i've seen the cut ends on some bad screw terminal connections). Just some runs through internal walls appear to be armoured cable. I wonder if I could get a picture... (might be hard to get a picture without removing a device but I don't really wanna disturb any of it).. but basically what I see is two wires entering .. with a bit of paper around them and no ground wire or anything... but everything is grounded just fine so the only explanation is that the outer core of that wire is metallic.

Any other explanations? I'm always open to learning... i just assumed it was some type of armoured cable.


Originally Posted By: roconnor
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bbadger wrote:
Also they never made 14 AWG AL so if it is 14 AWG it is copper.

While I have not seen it, I thought 14 AWG AL was made at some point way back, and if ya have that wiring on branch circuits it MUST be replaced (e.g. no copper pigtails at outlets as a fix).

Greg Fretwell wrote:
I also don't think they are doing anything with that fuse holder. The "out" screw is the rusty one on the bottom with no wire on it.

I agree with Greg that it looks like the fuse socket has been bypassed, and screwing one in probably wouldn't do anything.

Also, that old AC cable looks like it's in horrible shape ... was the insulation starting to crack, or is that just an optical delusion? Plus add the unused connector opening on the right (and maybe the top too) to the list of problems ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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If that AC was installed in the 70s with cloth wound insulation someone had it on a shelf for a while. AC had THW in it by then.


Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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Greg Fretwell wrote:
If that AC was installed in the 70s with cloth wound insulation someone had it on a shelf for a while. AC had THW in it by then.


If this is in reference to my apartment, the wire insulation is THHN/THWN or similar... the plasticy stuff.


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Sorry Joey, I was talking about the wire in the picture.


Originally Posted By: jmyers
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I don’t believe I would require them to remove the shut off and replace the box, however I would ask them to remove the fuse block and the connector which is not longer being used and replace it with a plug.


After all, it is made for electrical connections, correct!

If the wire was deteriorated, I would also ask for it to be replaced.

Actually, the box itself would be the last of my concerns! ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif)


--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Any real electrican is not going to walk away from that without providing a disconnect. For about $5 worth of parts he could fix it right.


Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Greg,


I did not mean to imply that the heater should not have a disconnect, I simply meant I would allow the existing disconnect to be used as a junction box, assuming some modifications were made.

Thanks for clearing that up!


--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz