I am practicing electrical inspections and recently got an infrared camera “Flir One Edge Pro”. I noticed that this 30 amp surge protector was showing 120 degrees farenheit. The AFCIs were also emitting heat. I understand that the surge protector has an indicator light and electronics that could be generating heat. I also learned that the electronics in the AFCI’s generate heat. This was in an air conditioned garage in SWFL at 77 degrees. My understanding is that the Square D surge protector can operate up to 140 degrees safely, but I also heard that the amount of devices the unit is protecting could lead the unit to overheat. Anybody have any insight, tricks or tips for this type of scenario.
First of all you need training to use an infrared camera. Secondly you should not be using it on an electrical panel.
Those are the insights you need.
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Where did you hear this? I’ve never heard of read anything that would indicate that the number of devices has anything to do with the operating temperature of the SPD.
Hi Rob,
So i looked up the specifications for a 30 amp square D surge protector and found this. I also used Google AI to look up the max operating temperature of a 30 amp square D surge protector. This could be a dumb way of researching. The advanced electrical inspections course taught me to look for differences in temperatures of the breakers. That is all i am trying to do right now. Was wondering if anyone ran into this scenario and could provide insight.
The AFCI’s are constantly monitoring the circuit and are typically 10 to 15 degrees above ambient due to the internal electronics generating heat. My understanding is that surge protection devices have similar circuitry and should also be warmer than ambient. That the surge protection device is almost 30 degrees warmer than the AFCI’s and 45 degrees over ambient is something that could require further investigation. The first thing you should do is look at the thermal camera image from several other angles to rule out the possibility that the surge protector is simply reflecting heat from another source.
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Hi Brian,
Thank you for your response and the information you provided. I will try and get better photos from different angles and evaluate again.
That right there will get you into more trouble than you can shake a stick at!
Example:
Breaker #1 has zero load applied at the time of the TI scan…
Breaker #2 has a partial load applied at the time of the TI scan…
Breaker #3 has a near full load applied at the time of the TI scan…
Question: Is there a difference in temperatures between all breakers scanned, and what does that information tell you??
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Hi Jeffrey,
Thanks for your response. I will need to continue to reevaluate the panel before I can answer your question. Thank you for giving me new things to think about as I continue to learn.
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The point is the TI camera will give non-useful information for a home inspection. In fact it will get you into trouble as you form wrong conclusions.
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Check this recent thread:
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If you’re going to use an IR imager for electrical inspections, then by all means get at least Level 1 certified for infrared. Otherwise, leave your imager at home. Although I’m Snell certified, for home inspecting, I only use IR to confirm hydronic in floor heat operation. For a new inspector, IR does not belong in your toolbox. Otherwise, you’ll get yourself into trouble. You need home inspection experience first. See @lhenderson2 link!
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Morning, John. Hope you are well.
May I recommend/refer, not blending the two while practicing or doing onsite electrical panel inspections. Not needed and will likely cause more confusion than its worth.
KISS - Keep It Simple Student!
Thermal Resolution, 160 × 120 (19,200 pixels* )
Object temperature range(s): -4 to 248°F (-20 to 120°C), 32 to 752°F (0 to 400°C)
Operating temperature: 14 to 122°F (-10 to 50°C), battery charging 32 to 113°F (0 to 45°C)
Emissivity correction: Matte, semi-matte, semi-glossy, glossy
Measurement correction: Emissivity; reflected apparent temperature (72°F / 22°C)
Note: to find the target’s true temperature, it needs to know the object’s emissivity to filter out the reflected radiation, which is accounted for by setting the reflected apparent temperature
Shutter: Automatic/manual
Accuracy: 5.4°F (±3°C) or ±5%. Applicable 60 seconds after start-up when the unit is within 59 to 95°F (15 to 35°C) and the scene is within 41 to 248°F (5 to 120°C)
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Hi Michael,
Thanks so much for the response. I am currently taking Internachis infrared course and will continue to learn and will take more courses. If this was not a family members house I probably would not have gone outside the SOP to look at something like this. Also because this is a practice inspection I am using this as an opportunity to get out all my questions.
Hi Robert,
Thanks so much for your response. Seems I have gotten myself into deep water. It was a mistake for me to incorporate any of the infrared photos without additional proper training. Understanding how to dial in the camera to get the most accurate data possible will be important. I naively figured that the electrical panel would be a simple scan.
I was actually asking about this part of your original post "My understanding is that the Square D surge protector can operate up to 140 degrees safely, but I also heard that the amount of devices the unit is protecting could lead the unit to overheat."
Morning again, John.
You have not got yourself into hot water nor would not call it a mistake. You were asking a question without considering infrared thermography captures and visualizes an object’s emitted thermal radiation to create temperature maps, temperature distributions, heat transfer through conduction, convection, radiation, to identify thermal anomalies.
Take the InterNACHI Building Science & Infrared Thermal Imaging. From what I understand, InterNACHI member William Decker improved the course to help students detect thermal patterns caused by defects, energy loss, water problems, moisture intrusion, and building envelope deficiencies and the basics of using an infrared camera.
Its free. Infrared Certified® Thermography Inspection Course - InterNACHI®
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Once you get going, keep IR out of your inspections for several years - best for ever. You need to up your HI knowledge base and experience first. Personally, I use IR for energy audits and problem solving, a separate work from HI. I keep IR away from HI work because buyers assume much more than what IR can do. Assumptions create liability. In addition, for proper IR applied to a HI (insulation scan, moisture detection, heat & AC, energy use, maybe electrical), my fee would easily double. Perform a thorough HI first and get your report writing down first. That’s your task at hand, a task that takes time to master. Focus on that instead of IR.
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Hi Robert,
Thanks for pointing this out. I used Google AI to ask does the number of devices in a panel effect the surge protectors operating temperature. I believe I misread/misunderstood the information. It says the amount of devices does not effect the operating temperature but the electrical load created by the devices could have a major impact. If for instance a new electric pool heater was added to the home would that be an example of a device that could potentially add an increased electrical load on the surge protector? Thanks for your response!
Hi Michael,
Thanks so much for the response and insight as this is very helpful for me. This is very useful information as I build my inspection processes. I agree that it opens you up to liability, because now you claim you can see much more. Good point on the fee as well. Will stick to the basics for now.
Good Morning Robert,
Thanks again for the response. I will be taking the Building Science Course in the future. Still so much to learn.