Electrical panel?

This is my first inspection and want to verify a few things.

I know this would be an open ground 2-wire system but I’ve tested the receptacles and continually get a reversed hot and neutral along with a correct indicator light on my receptacle tester and found 1 or 2 locations with open ground.

Is this more then likely a DIY tapping into the ground and neutral on the receptacle itself making it appear to test good on certain receptacles?

How would you report this ?

I’d report it as an ungrounded system along with the discovery of reversed hot and neutral conductors and recommend evaluation and repairs as necessary by a qualified electrical contractor.

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Paul, can you clarify what you mean by “an open ground 2-wire system”?

The “Open Ground” term is a result of what the receptacle tester read or should read.

2-wire system comes from old wiring methods where the ground wire was cut or not used, and only the hot and neutral wire was. Resulting in an open/ungrounded system.

How old is the house?

I see many EGCs in your second pic. In fact I don’t see any cables that would have a missing EGC. I hope you did not determine it’s the older 2prong system just because few receptacles had a missing ground shown by your tester. If the circuits that use those EGCs are wired correctly you will have a proper ground at each receptacle. Reversed polarity needs to be corrected, it could be very dangerous.

Also, another question…SOP indicates that were “not required to verify service ground”.
But we are “required to inspect service ground”.

What’s the key differences between the two?

Thanks for the clarification. I see what your talking about, I know they should all be bonded but should the EGC be on a separate buss bar?

Built in 1982

If wired as service (main) panel, no they don’t have to be separared. In fact, in the service panel the neutral bus bar must be bonded to the metal enclosure. This is covered in the NACHI electrical course.

I may have worded that wrong. I’m aware that there all connected with bonding to one another and the main panel as well,
but should the EGC have its own separate buss bar?
Ex. Neutral buss bar bonded to EGC buss bar.

I guess I could look in my book when I get home :slight_smile:

Think of it this way: if the bus bars are physically bonded, what would be the point of separating the conductor terminations? IS it cleaner, maybe, it is necessary, no.

Did you write-up all of the other issues with this panel? I am most concerned with all of the corrosion on the conductors at the left side of the box. My thermal camera may have found some heating on those breakers. Where is that corrosion coming from, is the service entrance cable jacket compromised? Also, the SE conductor has some nicks that from here don’t appear to penetrate the insulation but I also see electrical tape on one of the conductors so it was likely compromised and that tape is not a proper repair.
How about the open knockouts at the bottom of the panel, the breakers that are likely not approved for use in that panel.
There is a lot going on in there. Did you see a grounding conductor leave the panel and go to a rod or to a water pipe? I can’t seem to find that in mess.

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Built in 1982? By whom? In 1982, shouldn’t have an ungrounded system. Right?

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OK so it’s not an “an open ground 2-wire system” as you stated previously it’s just wired incorrectly.

What is an Open Ground 2-Wire System?

The system is not ungrounded. Residential systems are always grounded.

Oh. obviously George, no need to explain THAT. I’m sure everybody knows exactly what you mean. :expressionless: :roll_eyes:
No grounding electrode, EGC or GEC. WTF.
So there’s a ground at the pole. You get off on confusing people?

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Kenton, There certainly is a need to explain that. I don’t “get off” on confusing people. I have spent my adult life training electricians and, for the past 20 years, home inspectors. Home inspector’s are confused because of the way that other home inspectors and too many inspector schools toss around improper terms.

If a home inspector refers to a residential system as being ungrounded, it is wrong and will lead to confusion. Using improper terms leads to confusion. Using proper terms clears up confusion.

I call Bullshit on anyone who bastardizes the home inspection trade by willfully, or through ignorance, promotes or defends the use of improper terminology.

I answer electrical questions for inspectors EVERY DAY. I know where they are confused. This is one thing that they struggle with. They struggle to understand the basics because of what they see as conflicting information from different sources.

You can say whatever you want about me but when you accuse me of intentionally trying to confuse inspectors, that is unmitigated BULLSHIT! Of all people, I expect more from you.

Tell us how a house with no grounding components at all is a grounded system, George.
No grounding electrode. No grounding electrode conductor, no equipment grounding conductors… no grounding-related component in the entire house… and bet your ash it’s not properly bonded.
How is that a house with a grounded electrical system George? Tell us. How should an inspector describe the electrical system of that house? How should they describe the house grounding system that you say it has?

Perhaps… in 120/240 residential US electrical system the grounded (neutral) conductor is required to have grounding connection(s) or to be grounded… therefore referring to such electrical system as “ungrounded” would imply it does not require grounding.

As to what to call it, one could simply state the electrical system was missing a proper grounding at the time of the inspection :slight_smile:

Several of you need your eyes examined. The OP’s pictures show a slew of EGCs with at least one large enough to be the ground rod connection. Main problem is an obsolete panel.

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I think you mean electrode, thanks for clearing up the confusion! :slight_smile: