Originally Posted By: Michael J. Owens
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icon_question.gif The NEC prohibts the use of nm where exposed to physical damage.

Does this include under a sink? ( e.g. sink disposal)

Is the use of wire ties in a circuit panel code compliant?

Originally Posted By: dvalley
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Welcome to NACHI.

I will not discuss codes as they become very complicated and vary by jurisdictions.
I can tell you that the nm wire that you are seeing at the disposal, is a typical installation. I see it unprotected on every installation. If I find that this wire is hanging or exposed to physical damage, I tell my client to have this properly secured to cabinet walls, and out of the way of potential damage.

As far as wire ties in a SE panel, I never see them. You would think that the wires would be harder to trace if they are bunched up in wire ties!

My three pesos

David Valley
MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

Originally Posted By: rpalac
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At this time I can’t put my finger on the code sections, but here is the answer.

I know thaty NM (Romex) was acceptable as a feed to gabage disposals and dishwashers in the past. I believe that anything wired since 2002 code release is now required to be metal clad (A/C Wire).

It has been a long practice to use wire ties in panels ,expecially commercial where wire is often stranded and becomes very sloppy when not tied or fastened in some manner.

If the house is new construction you would need metal clad wire under the sink. If it is older than 2002 it is acceptable and does not need to be changed. The code does not require any up grades from code to code unless it is direct conflict with personal safety issues.

Bob p.

Originally Posted By: rmoore
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As Mike posted this question elsewhere, and I replied there, I’m copying my post here.

The other option would be an approved flexible plug and cord set (often available from the manufacturer of the disposer).
I have installed about a dozen of these myself during kitchen remodels and have always used BX to a wall plate for new boxes or a cord set for existing receptacles. I have never used romex. It's really not that much extra work to do it properly..

I was just looking at some Insinkerator installation instructions and it doesn't expressly require BX when hard wiring but does state that it needs to comply with local rules. I would argue that the area under a sink is in common use with people tossing stuff in all the time and therefore the NM is subject to physical damage but I suppose the degree of "worry" would depend on the how the wiring is routed.

I feel that an unspoken part of our job is to point out items that would probably get reported by other inspectors when the client sells the home at some point in the future even if they aren't a major issue. So...I have been reporting this as wrong.


Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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Here is where this has been asked before http://www.mikeholt.com/codeforum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000274

I answered over there but I have been thinking on this some more and looking closely at the code.

There is no direct answer to the question of NM to a disposal. ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif)

334.30 requires a support for NM cable within 12" of a termination.

320.30 requires the same for AC cable (BX)

334.15(A) requires that exposed NM cable shall closely follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.

320.15 requires the same thing for AC cable.

I will have to admit that most of the installations I have seen do not follow the surface of the building.

Now some opinion, if the NM cable comes out of the wall between the plumbing stops behind the disposal and straight out to it I see little chance of damage.

If the NM comes up through the bottom of the cabinet where it is sure to get hit by normal use of the cabinet I see a problem, however AC cable run this same way would also be a problem.

What I am saying is it all depends on how the work is done, use of common sense can go a long way.

It almost seems the use of a cord and plug is the only way to go.

But that is only true because of an article for disposals 422.16(B)(1) as most times flexible cord is not allowed as a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure 400.8(1)

Wire ties in panels are not prohibited, but bundles of conductors or cables in any location are limited to 24" in length or are subject to the derating requirements of 310.15(B)(2)(a).

I agree with David the wire ties make working in the panel harder I will use them loosely when I have to with stranded wires.

Too much info huh, sorry but the code is tough to stay short with.

I am not suggesting that HIs need to know and tell their clients all the NEC but I feel if you are armed with that background you have a better ability to form decisions on your reports.

Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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I use a piece of 14 awg (not bare) and twist it around the wires.

This make a neat installation and is easy to remove.

If you do not understand me, take a piece and wrap it around a pencil and it will make sense.

Mike P.

Originally Posted By: Michael J. Owens
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icon_biggrin.gif Gentlemen:

Thank you one and all. Please excuse my ingorance I am new in the inspection business. There is no need to worry I am not out there by my self. I am being trained by two very experienced inspectors. There will be more questions. I guess i also have to learn where to post my questions

Thank you once again !!!!!