How do you (or don’t you) verify roof to wall attachment on a flat roof structure with no attic access?
Thanks
H. No attic access
Regards
Sometimes you can get it from the soffit, if easily removed and put back. Otherwise, it’s “No Attic Access”.
Remove the soffit — or ---- find rip in screen soffit vent or remove oval or round plastic vent inserts and stick camera in — takes about 5-10 photos before you get the angle and zoom settings just right, but it saves the day for the homeowner… Also, you can sometimes view the joist fasteners from within the pitched roof attic where the two roofs intersect.
yep unless they would like to pay for some DESTRUCTIVE analysis:D Then it’s fun time.
Thanks. This is a 2 story building with two identical condos stacked on top of each other. If there is a clean and easy way to remove the soffit I will.
Dennis - thanks for the tip but I already know how to photograph joist fasteners. Ugh.
Let me know how it goes man.
Doubt that 
Just have the owner take care of the removal…no mess, no fuss, no tools.
I agree there 
This flat metal roof covers an enclosed porch, a utility room and a carport. It it not attached to the rest of the roof, so I am not considering it for wind mitigation purposes. Is this correct?
If its not tied into the roof system, it is not counted. Think about it if the metal roof blows off the rest of the roof is still in tacked. If it was built into the roof system being enclosed than its counted. Since it looks like from your picture, it appears to be other roof shape.
Keyword is “enclosed”. If any of the space is enclosed (glass windows, non-screened doors), then the metal roof is counted.
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You can have an enclosed “patio” that is not structurally connected and still not counted.
If it is living space, no exterior door between the main house and it or if the HVAC for the house serves the “patio” then I would count it.
I know you keep saying that, but I still can’t find this exception on the 1802. Why does it matter if it’s living space or not, as written. I do understand the reasoning though, as in bumpout sunrooms or cheap aluminum / glass enclosed porches. Is this just an opinion that was started with the MSFH program, or are the underwriters ok with this? Just curious, John.
Many different terms and opinions being thrown around here, some more wrong then others. The determination of addition to the original dwelling unit can only be classified by the local building official, anything other than that is considered unsafe structure. The FBC defines dwelling unit under two classifications, habitable space and living space. We can also consider structure, which is defined as that which is built or constructed, and occupied space.
I would suggest a better understanding of what these terms mean and where they apply before rendering an opinion. I realize that comes off kind of blunt, but it’s not meant to be, just stating the facts. If part of the exterior structure has been removed, such as a door or window, the structure should be classified as unsafe and stated so in the report if there is no permit (I’m betting there isn’t). If conditioned air has been added, that opens up a whole new can of worms.
You are being paid for your expertise and opinion, you should take all components relating to the mitigation of the structure into consideration. If the structure becomes removed from it’s attachment, what affect will it have on the dwelling unit? Will the shape and location of the structure have an effect on the mitigation of wind around/through the dwelling unit?
The 1802 suggests “enclosed space” is only to be considered, I’ve always assumed they meant dwelling as enclosed space is not defined in the FBC.
The closest definition to enclosed space is interior environment, and that doesn’t apply to mitigation features but.
The FBC references your situation in Chapter 3. Building and Planning, in the Residential Code. Specifically, section R301.2.1.1.2 that will require you to classify the structure with 5 different categories. This section of the code classifies two types of space, non-habitable/habitable and non-conditioned/conditioned. You need only apply your situation for the answer…
R301.2.1.1.2 Sunrooms.
Sunrooms shall comply with AAMA/NPEA/NSA 2100 with the structural requirements and testing provisions of Chapter 5.
AAMA 2100, Section 5.2.1 Wind Loads: Modify Section 5.2.1as follows:
5.2.1 Wind Loads: Basic wind speed (Vasd) in miles per hour (mph) shall be determined in accordance with Section R301.2.1. Sunrooms including exposed structures, components, cladding, and roof covering shall be designed to resist the wind loads as established in Section R301.2.1.
For the purpose of applying the criteria of the AAMA Standard for sunrooms based on the intended use, sunrooms shall be categorized in one of the following categories by the permit applicant, design professional or the property owner where the sunroom is being constructed. **
Category** **I: **A roof or a covering of an outdoor space. The openings shall be permitted to be enclosed with insect screening or 0.5 mm (20 mil) maximum thickness plastic film. The space is defined as nonhabitable and unconditioned. **
Category** II: A roof or a covering of an outdoor space with enclosed walls. The openings are permitted to be enclosed with translucent or transparent plastic or glass. The space is defined as nonhabitable and unconditioned. **
Category** III: A roof or a covering of an outdoor space with enclosed walls. The openings are permitted to be enclosed with translucent or transparent plastic or glass. The sunroom complies with additional requirements for forced-entry resistance, air-leakage resistance and water-penetration resistance. The space is defined as nonhabitable and unconditioned. **
Category** **IV: **A roof or a covering of an outdoor space with enclosed walls. The sunroom is designed to be heated and/or cooled by a separate temperature control or system and is thermally isolated from the primary structure. The sunroom complies with additional requirements for forced-entry resistance, water penetration resistance, air-leakage resistance, and thermal performance. The space is defined as habitable and conditioned. **
Category V:** A roof or a covering of an outdoor space with enclosed walls. The sunroom is designed to be heated and/or cooled and is open to the main structure. The sunroom complies with additional requirements for forced-entry resistance, water-penetration resistance, air-leakage resistance, and thermal performance. The space is defined as habitable and conditioned
See attached.
Page 223 of the ARA 2008 Loss Mitigation Study
Porch/ Patio inclusion in the overall roof shape of a dwelling (see footnote 1 below also):
…I would add that the determination of exterior wall does not necessarily mean load bearing wall, that’s part of the reason the structure needs to be categorized to determine it’s feature.
Isn’t it strange, they (not you specifically) always say the 1802 isn’t a code inspection but every time we need an answer to a questions relating to the form we must reference code…funny how that works.
:mrgreen:
I will think about this more, but I consider those statements in the study to reflect “open or screened porches” and carports (exterior spaces).
Here is a huge sunroom I had yesterday. It was closed off from the living space and not conditioned…yet. The valley was saddled over the main roof. Should I have left this off the 1802?
