Originally Posted By: jhand
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/truss.jpg ]
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/truss.jpg ]
Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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hmmm…I’m no structural engineer, be have seen STEEL joists resting on the lower flange of an I beam. The bottom chords of the trusses are usually tied together (connected) by some form of bridging (bracing) for lateral support.
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Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi James,
if your diagram is correct that just has to be wrong.
here is my reasoning, if as you show the side chord has been cut to fit into the I beam and there is no support for the bottom chord, then the floor above is soley supported by the 2x4 top chords and therefore the truss is not acting as a truss at all.
If I am reading this correctly I would be calling for evaluation by a PE/SE, in fact I would concider it structurally unsafe. 
I don't suppose that you have any photo's of this ??
Regards
Gerry
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Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
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Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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Gerry, I think it’s called a mid-chord bearing type truss, and is used in truss design.
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Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi Kevin,
Yes I agree with you but unless I misunderstood his diagram the chords were not doubled at the sides and on the angled chords. Maybe I misread it 
regards
Gerry
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Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
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"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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Not the best drawing in the world…you’re right a picture would be much more useful to determine what exactly is the situation.
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Originally Posted By: jhand
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I wish I could have taken a picture of this but I am finishing up my 50 mentored inspections here in NJ and the inspector that I am with doesn’t like to use cameras. He didn’t think anything was wrong with it. The vertical end cord was doubled but the diagonal was not. You could stand in the basement and notice the sag. It looked to me like the builder used the same trusses that he was using with a top bearing throughout the rest of the house and just lopped the corner off.
My business will start up by the end of this month thanks to NACHI’s help in postponing the lic law here and I will definitely take my camera cause there are some strange things out there that beg for a photo op. ( I really wanted to take a picture of dryer vent connected into a plumbing vent stack yesterday.)
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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| James wrote: |
| It looked to me like the builder used the same trusses that he was using with a top bearing |
that is what I was afraid of.
BTW, welcome to NACHI 
Regards
Gerry
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Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466
Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com
"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: rking
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So what’s wrong with a dryer vent into a plumbing stack? It keeps the plumbing stack warm so it won't freeze and of course the humidity condensing in the stack actually helps out all of those darn traps that are supposd to be there!
On a more serious note; that would be a GREAT picture!
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Originally Posted By: rmoore
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Looking at James’ diagram…Even if it were an acceptable mid-chord bearing for the truss, wouldn’t it still be wrong to use just the bottom flange of an I-beam for the bearing point? Doesn’t seem to me that that’s how they are designed to handle loads.
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Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
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Originally Posted By: rhinck
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Sounds to me that you have a TOP CHORD BEARING type truss. I can not comment on the sag- but top chord bearing is a standard type truss- often used in that exact situation.
Rick
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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There have even been problems with typical un-modified metal plate connected (MPC) wood floor trusses (both types, but particularly the top-chord-bearing type). They are also more sensitive to deterioration and misuse than conventional framing, and can be very unforgiving. Here is a link to one paper on MPC truss problems, if you feel like being bored to tears with an engineering study ...  ... CLICK HERE
| jhand wrote: |
| It looked to me like the builder used the same trusses that he was using with a top bearing throughout the rest of the house and just lopped the corner off. |
It does look/sound like the contractor just field cut some of the floor truss end to drop it down on to the beam flange from the description and sketch (it probably originally looked like the upper truss on the right of Jim's sketch).
Plus, wood framing really should not be bearing on the bottom flange of a steel girder, and would need steel straps over the top and connected on the other side for adequate support. Add to that the movement or "springy" feeling of the framing, and I think that installation should be evaluation by a structural engineer.
Just my opinion and 2 nickels
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Robert O'Connor, PE
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Originally Posted By: jhand
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Thanks for all of the help guys, esp the diagrams.
Jim