Florida Re-roof question/problem

Local Inspection Issues Florida and SUNachi Inspectors
1

Hello everyone, I first posted this in the roofing inspectors section but then thought it maybe belong here instead. Maybe a moderator can pull or combine them.

We have a contract on a house and are concerned the re-roof was not actually completed. Also, we are wondering what codes this new roof must adhere to. I will try to put all the information you need here. If something is incomplete or in question please let me know. Here are the facts that as we know them…

HOUSE
>Built in 1999
>Greater than $300,000 tax value (less than $750,000)
>In a Wind-Borne Debris region as defined in s. 1609.2 of the International Building Code (2006) (it is in actually in a 140mph zone)
>A “new tile roof” was “recently” put on the house per the listing.
>Bank owned property
>Secluded location

PROOF OF NEW ROOF
>Notice of Commencement dated 04 Sept 2012
>Complies with Code inspection dated 18 Dec 2012

CONCERN
Wind Mitigation Inspection Form States
>Year of Installation or Replacement - “1999”
>Secondary Water Resistance (SWR) - “No SWR” (Why not mark “Unknown or undetermined”)
>Inspectors comments - “This roof has not been replaced, just patched up in some places.”
Home inspection
>Home inspection shows several areas needing Flashing kickouts.

THEN
Once the Notice of Commencement and Complies with Code was shown to the wind mitigation inspector he then stated.
“Well, you can’t tell if there is SWR or not. And, it’s hard to say if a tile roof is new or old.”

REGULATIONS for “NEW ROOF REPLACEMENT” - FS 553.844 - Direct quotes from what I have found -
>As required by law, effective October 1, 2007, all roof replacements on existing site built single family residential structures constructed prior to implementation of the Florida Building Code (March 1, 2002) must include a secondary water barrier as defined by the new regulations.
>Additionally, the existing roof decking must comply with section 507.2.2 of the Florida Existing Building Code or be re-nailed utilizing fasteners on a specified spacing (again as defined by the new regulations).
>Also, in wind borne debris areas, up to 15% of the cost of the roof replacement must be used to enhance the intersection of the roof framing with the wall below by adding metal connectors, clips, straps and fasteners such that the performance level equals or exceeds the uplift capacities as specified in the new regulations.

I AM BEING TOLD
>Secondary Water Resistance is not required. Only the decking needs to be nailed per 507.2.2.
>It was build in 1999 so it only has to meet 1999 codes
>Marking “Unknown or undetermined” on the wind mitigation can increase the wind mitigator’s liability

MY QUESTIONS
1 - Is a Secondary Water Resistance (or Sealed Roof Deck) required on this home if a roof replacement is performed? (I think yes but they are telling me no)
2 - If the wind mitigation inspector could not verify the SWR then why did he not mark “unknown or undetermined”?
3 - Is there a way to verify this roof was replaced in December 2012?
4 - Is there a way to verify the roof does in fact have a SWR?
5 - What other code requirements are in effect for this roof?
6 - What other questions should I be asking?

We are supposed to close next week.
Thanks for the help.
Richard

2

I can help answer your questions.

lecsi2@gmail.com

3
  1. No. Some counties still allow a double layer of 30# felt, nailed every 6" in the edges and 12" in the field, in lieu of an SWR.
  2. He may have been able to determine the lack of SWR at the roof penetrations. The building department should have notes or an affidavit from the roofer stating whether SWR was or was not used.
  3. The local building department holds the permit records. Many have information online, but you may need to call and talk with a permit tech.
  4. No. Not without documented proof of what system or product was used, verification of the roofing contractor, and/or verification of the building department. The only other way would be to tear all of the shingles off to verify a complete install of SWR (that would not be feasible).
  5. The current FBC requires that the roof sheathing be re-nailed with 8d nails every 6" on the seams and in the field. Also, the finish roofing material (shingles, metal, tile, etc) must have a Notice of Acceptance (NOA) by the FBC or Miami-DadeBC. It also must be rated for the uplift of your wind zone.
  6. The best source for information will be the building department. You should ask:
    A) When was the roof permitted? What inspections did it have? Did the inspection have any notes? Are any affidavits and NOAs in the permit records? How can I get a copy of all of this information?

That should clear up the majority of your questions. If you have any others, my number is my signature. Feel free to call.

4

My understanding is that the membrane under a tile roof is the primary one. The only way to achieve a secondary membrane is to add foam adhesive under the sheathing. Ice and water shield will not work in sheets or strips because it is not compatible with hot tar.

5

SWR as referred to in the wind mitigation inspection, is a completely different item to that required by the FBC. The product in question for the Wind mitigation is a self adhering membrane usually applied just to the joints on a plywood deck roof. It is not what a roofer , or the F.B.C. class as secondary water resistance. That would be the underlayment (30lb felt, glass sheet, or similar).
If somebody went to the trouble of recording an N.o.C. surely they pulled a permit.

6

Strips of ice and water shield ARE considered SWM on roofs that do not have hot tar applied.

7

Marvin, yes it does count as a SWR. The point I was trying to get across was that SWR on the wind mit, and SWR in the FBC are two different things. For the purposes of a wind mit, the SWR must be a self adhering membrane or similar. Whereas for the purposes of meeting the FBC several other products ( such as 30lb felt) can also be used. Although in the eyes of a roofer they are classed as SWR, from the standpoint of a wind mit they do not count.
When a roofer does a re-roof he has a choice of underlayments, depending on which type of roof he is installing. The cheapest being 30lb felt. So when you ask a roofer if the roof he just installed has a SWR he would reply yes. The roofer will only upgrade from 30lb felt if the customer asks specifically for a certain product, or if the roofer can up-sell the customer.

8

This is correct.

9

Anyone know what the discount ='s in percentage or dollars anyhow?

10

What day is it and what color crayon am I holding in my hand? :stuck_out_tongue:

11

I heard SWR is 0%…

12

Incorrect, it is not 0%, but not far off. From the state OIR mitigation tables, depending on the mitigation features selected and windspeed zone you fall into , it adds another 2-5% onto the total credit applied for non FBC and 1-3% for built to FBC. If you go to this link, it has the rate tables from 2011 on page 59-62:

13

Good to know… how the hell do you read that table… and what are the ranges for the other credits? Are they in the report?

14

Mitigation credits are read like a flow chart, and flow left to right on the chart so you just start with roof covering fbc or non fbs, then go to your roof deck attachment level, then match the rtw, then protection, the roof shape, then swr, then that gives you the mitigation factor for the policy. I believe the link is for 2011 though. I would surmise the OIR revised the factors when they revised the form for 2012 although I could not find anything quick. I know if I go to the OIR site and pull a rate filing for a home insurance company I could get the latest tables but too much work, just wanted to use it as an illustration to everyone that it’s not a hard fast percentage, there’s alot of variables to get to your final discount factor.

15

Interesting… we should find someone with some computer skills to make an accurate calculator (coughcough* InterNACHI) to give to our clients so they could get an accurate discount percent when considering upgrades.

16

Everybody gets it with their policy for the their company. Usually percent and dollar amount.

17

The ones I have seen have some pretty crazy ranges, these tables look alot more precise.

18

What the insured’s get in the mail with their declaration is only a general example of the savings, and not a hard fast dollar amount for each specific policy. The factor cannot be determined until the whole form is filled out, turned in, and pushed through the flowchart programmed into the company’s software. I tell most folks to call their agent, the agent can run an endorsement/policy change and insert or delete a certain selection on the form and the client can get the exact $$ amount of adding additional mitigation features that way.

19

I sat down with an agent for about an hour going over different scenarios on a WM. Learned a lot about how that complicated formula works. I would let you know what I found out, but then I would have to have Meeker shoot you.