Found this mess today...

I think they hired a dyslexic newbie when this was built.:neutral:

Do you mean the boss gave the newbie a panel without a main breaker?

Looks like they forgot to tighten the lugs with the feed conductors.

It is a sub-panel.

The owner calls me today (just after I get in the attic of course) and says “the electrician is here and took the front off the box in the garage and he says everything is fine”. I told her he was mistaken, she asks if I would talk to him I said “sure”. She says he is talking on his phone now I will hand my phone to him when he is done. I can hear him in the background 'si, si, si, si," then she hands him the phone and he says " you were right sir I need to turn off the main breaker and separate the neutrals and grounds. I smell a re-inspection coming down the pike soon. :lol:

I don’t see a 4 wire feed. How is he going to fix that?

Keep grounds and neutrals bonded and install ground rod at garage.

Is that an acceptable fix, if the sub is in the same structure as the service equipment?

No, I don’t believe it is.

If the raceway containing the feeder conductors is metallic it may qualify as the EGC so no 4th conductor would be needed. You cannot just install a ground rod.

If the garage this panel is installed in is detached and panel was installed prior to 2008 NEC you could, right?

Yes, but then the repair would depend on what is enforced in that jurisdiction, in some places you would need to install the remedy according to the current code so using the pre-2008 exception might not be an option.

Garage is attached, good info for everyone though.

So is there an EGC in the feeder?


Since there is no EGC the guy fixing this will need to do more than separate the EGC’s and neutrals and fix the conductor falling out of the terminal. :shock:

I know… I tried to explain it to him, but their was an language barrier, so I’m not sure if he got it or not. Like I said I smell a re-inspection coming. Thanks for all your help over the years Robert!! Nick should give you an honorary status of some sort for all of helpful posts for members.

Pull another conductor.