Furnace in Bedroom

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/Delisle030.jpg ]



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Originally Posted By: rpalac
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Theres a lot goiing on here.


Do you have a copy of the mechnical and the IBC code?

There are area that are not allowable for gas or oilo fired hot water or heating units. (bathrooms and bed room with exception of isolated air intake feeds)

Also the type of line feeding gas. a garden hose might be okay in some countries but not in the us. flex aluminum or copper is not alowed by the gas company.

Electric lines should be MC, piped, or BX (physical protection) and secured.

I don't have the code with me at this time but I know that there are these issues for you to investigate.

Bob p.


Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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I believe LP lines can be flex. copper.



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Originally Posted By: rpalac
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Reference for allowable piping in liquid propane:


http://ops.dot.gov/regulations/SmallLPGas/Chapter3.pdf


copper is okay

VERY IMPORTANT:
NFP 54
http://www.ccb.org/docs/ufgshome/pdf/15190A.pdf

read 2.1 NOTE:
also 2.1.3

Yes, copper can be used if it is a certain gauge and if the local provider states that there gas is not corrosive to the material.

Copper is not alowed in Philly because of additives. the gas company here will red tagf it.

Bob P.


Originally Posted By: jmertins
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The things you find in central Wisconsin…WOW



John Mertins


Baxter Home Inspections, Inc.

"Greatness courts failure"

Roy "Tin Cup" McAvoy

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Kevin -


I think if you will refer back to your notes from wherever you went to Home Inspection Training School, you will easily find the several places that a furnace or water heater is not allowed to be installed (unless its direct vent or electric).

In the plumbing section of your Inspection Training Notes you will probably find some comments about copper gas line requirements in areas that still allow them (things like "being used only with low sulphur gas"; "being marked that they are for gas, not water"; "like not passing through a wall, floor partition, or appliance wall, etc").

Once you start reviwing your notes I'll bet it comes back in a hurry. I've never seen any worthwhile Home Inspection Training Course that didn't cover these basics.

Good Luck


Originally Posted By: mboehmer
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- Section 1701.4 of IRC also spells out sleeping rooms as a prohibited source for obtaining combustion air.


Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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Thanks everyone.


Here's another questions. First time I ran into this type of material. Is this thermoplastic?

![](upload://uSFPTbGpFypa9ejsv0Y1e4FgXAb.jpeg)


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Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Kevin -


From the photo it looks like one of the newer gas lines (metal ribbed on the inside and coated with the yellow plastic coatings outside).

We're starting to see them a lot. The code does not treat them as flexible gas connectors - in that its very common to see them passing through walls, ceilings, floors, etc.


Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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It’s slightly off-topic, but my plumber used those type straps under my house when it was built. Half of them broke or pulled out in the first year; replaced all of 'em. I’ve seen more since on inspections, lots of broken ones.


Originally Posted By: Rich Clos
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The product is a stainless steel flexable pipe. It has a coating over it for protection.


http://www.wardmfg.com/WardflexSpecs.asp

Other manufacturers make simular products.

This is a great product if installed correctly

Rich


Originally Posted By: jwortham
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Are they rated for outdoor (underground) use?


Originally Posted By: Rich Clos
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No, they are stricky for indoor use, the protection covering is not UV rated.


One misuse of the product is going through joists and the installer not protecting it with strike plates.

Once the black Iron pipe from the meter enters the home you can convert to this tubing, and you can go to a distribution center, which is a manifold system. From there you can run what ever you wish.

The sizing is close to that of black pipe.

Someone on another post asked why you can't run copper with natural gas.

In some area's you may, but it is highly discouraged by the HVAC trade. The major difference between Propane and Natural gas is sulpher. Natural gas contains some sulpher, and this causes copper to 'flake'. This flaking can and many times do cause gas valve sticking. I would never ever run copper for anything on natural gas except an outside light or a gas grill.

This CSST (Corrugated STainless Steel tubing was approaved by the National Fuel Gas Code in 1988. Price has kept it out of major makets for a long time up until recently when other companies started to manufacture it. Isn't competition great ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)


Anyway, I love the stuff and never had any problems with it. I just ran a 2" line at a bowling alley last March, saved over $5000 in labor for the customer.
Rich


Originally Posted By: Rich Clos
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Kevin, I believe you mean to call the copper, "Soft’ copper, not flex.


Also, I cannot think of one area where soft copper tubing cannot be used for propane.

As to black pipe, please remember that galvanized pipe is dangerous. The coating can flake off and stick a valve open or allow it to bleed and then have an explosion. This is the same reason I won't use copper on natural gas. I just can't believe Columbia Gas allows it to be used.

Another thing, someone on another post asked about drip legs. There is a difference between a 'frip' leg and a 'sediment' trap. Those located at furnaces just before entering the furnace is a 'sediment' trap. According to the Natinsl Fuel Gas code, the gas valve MAY be located DOWNSTRAM of the sediment trap! I was written up on this two times and I showed the inspector the code and they were amazed. Sediment and condensation are completley different situations. ALL furnace manufactuerers REQUIRE sediment traps at the equipment, and I can't think of one that permits anything less than 3". you can go bigger, but not smaller.


Rich