gadjets

Originally Posted By: Marie Guerrieri
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Hi all!


I have a question about all these gadgets used by home inspectors. I’m just starting out and I was wondering if I should be using all these high tech gadgets if my job is suppose to be “visual inspection”? I’d like to own some of these really cool gadgets but will I be setting myself up for a higher chance of law suit if I go beyond the visual inspection? Is there anyone out there that does not use all these new high tech toys? And do these gadgets really help an inspector draw more business? Thank for any advice you all can give me…Marie


Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Marie,


Welcome to the forum and to the business. You will find a wide variety of inspectors here who use many different types of equipment.

I have been doing this for about 8 years. I use the standard tools, electric tester, water pressure tester, flashlight, HVAC thermometer, screwdriver, nut driver set, ladder, etc.

I also carry a Fluke amp clamp to check the current draw on electric strip heaters in furnaces, what with the amount of them here in FL. I have also added a digital camera to put photos in my reports.

Personally, I don't carry specialty tools like a moisture meter, or a gas sniffer, etc. I have seen two, and heard of several (heard of is of course scuttlebutt) inspectors who lost law suits because this equipment took them past a visual inspection, and caused a more technically exhaustive inspection. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with that, and we can be sued for anything, but I have also never had the need or the money to buy them. I am sure others will answer your post and tell you why I am wrong.

If you carry the basic equipment, and do a careful visual inspection, and write a good and easily understood report, you will do fine. Remember, the most important tools you have are your eyes, your knowledge, and your ability to communicate. (communication is by far my weakest point, just after my 43 IQ and 20/800 vision ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ).

Again, welcome to the NACHI world.

Blaine


Originally Posted By: mrose
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.


Keep in mind a good number of inspectors, such as myself, are gadget freaks.

Part of keeping your clients interest is showmanship. Gadgets help in this area. It is essential to keep your client's interest for the 3-4 hours it takes to complete your inspection. By achieving this your client will retain more information and have fewer phone calls to you.

Gadgets don't make a good inspector or inspection. Continuous education, training, and field experience do.

Here's to your continued success.


--
Mike Rose
Cornerstone Home Inspection Co. LLC
Lawrenceville, GA

www.cornerstonehomeinspect.com

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Good advice Mike.


Marie:

Forgive my next comments as I tend to look at everything from a marketing standpoint:

Gadgets have a marketing benefit above and beyond what actual assistance they lend. A good, strong home inspector doesn't need to have a lot of tools and gadgets, but his marketing plan might. I wouldn't go as far as saying you should carry 2 empty tool boxes into the home you're about to inspect, but it doesn't hurt to flash (and use) your equipment if you have it.

A gas leak sniffer and a CO meter are nice to have.

Nick


Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Nick,


I guess that's why all of my A$$hi ![icon_evil.gif](upload://1gvq2wV2azLs27xp71nuhZOKiSI.gif) competitors around here have three big tool boxes and a 24' and 32' ladder chained on the ladder racks . All of the above have rusted locks because the ladders have never been off, and the tool boxes never opened. Although the one guy keeps his lunch in his now that I think about it, but then, he does one inspection per day, takes 8 hours and has a ? hour for lunch. Nice job if you can get it.

Blaine

PS They all have big A$$hi decals on their trucks too. Where's my NACHI decals


Originally Posted By: dave hartke
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I can’t speak from experience because I have yet to begin, but I recently have had 2 friends killed in a home gas explosion. Speculation is they became climatized to the odor of the troublesome furnace and tried to relight the pilot. Explosion moved the house 6" off its foundation.


My understanding is CO is sightless and has no smell, so before I begin home inspections I will have a gas sniffer and CO meter. It’s simply my personal preference.


Now, please someone tell me, officially, what is the responcibility of an HI in regards to safety in an inspection?


Dave Hartke


Originally Posted By: jonofrey
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Hi Dave,


No official response here - I'm sorry to hear of your friends but if there was an explosion, it seems that combustible gas of some type may have been involved. Natural gas has an additive in it that smells/stinks. They put that in there for a reason.

I'm not aware of explosions caused by CO gas. Maybe someone can edjucate me?

In any case, I have a detector specifically for combustible gas and one specifically for CO detection. I have used them only after my senses have alerted me to an unusual circumstance.

Your circumstances may vary. More info in the heating and venting section if you search. Also here - http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=1208


--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

Originally Posted By: dave hartke
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Thanks John.


Someone once told me that we notice the odorant in natural gas easily at first encounter but after a period of time we can no longer smell it (Idon't know how much time it takes). Kind of like the pig farmer that loses the ability to enjoy the "country air".

If this is true a family could live in a house where the little gas leak grew to a dangerous or fatal level.

Anybody know if this is fact or fiction?

Dave


Originally Posted By: roconnor
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John … I am with you on not using the specialized equipment.


http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?p=12218#12218

Nick ... forgive my next comments, as I tend to look at everything from an engineers point of view (yea, I know as an engineer by trade I have to be 1/4 lawyer ... lol).

I would never use any specialized equipment as part of a "visual observation" ... I even think even using a SureTest circuit analyzer over a good basic outlet tester that "Hary Homeowner" might use is close to crossing the line into "evaluation" or "performance testing".

The more specialized equipment you use, the higher the standard of care you have to meet, the more specialized training and statically sound your sampling methods and evaluation have to be, and the higher your exposure risk is to lawsuits. Trust me on this one, as engineers have all kinds of specialized testing equipment for buildings (e.g. impact echo) that I would never even consider using for a home inspection.

Are you specifically trained and certified on that equipment? What are you qualifications on using that equipment? Did you use generally accepted statistically models on your testing and evaluation? Why did you test only in those spots, and not the area that actually leaked and blew up the house and occupants?

I think Marie is right on the money on this one, even though not an experienced inspector.

Just my 2-quarters as an HI and Engineer (and 1/4 lawyer ... ARGHHH).


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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P.S. And ALWAYS recommend the newer combustible gas detectors be installed on any house that has fuel gas (down low for LP gas and up high for natural gas), in addition to the usual Fire/CO detectors … icon_wink.gif



Robert O’Connor, PE


Eagle Engineering ?


Eagle Eye Inspections ?


NACHI Education Committee


I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Tools and gadgets.


As you learn the business, you will (and should) aquire more inspection tools and gadgets.

As you learn more and get more experience, you will rely less on your tools and gadgets and more on your senses.

I have many tools and gadgets I carry with me all the time in my tool bag, but as the years go by, I use them less and less, simply because I don't them as often, except to confirm or rule out something I noticed.

You will also find out that your tools start out as very little cost, and each year, your tool and gadget needs get more expensive.

Don't skimp on them. Buy the best you can afford, get some with bells and whistles (as Nick said, that 'marketing'), don't get an infra red thermometer, get an infra red thermometer with a laser pointer, and get a good one with a high cone ratio. After a while, you won't use it much, but you will want to make sure you have a good one when you need it.

A new inspector CANNOT AFFORD to skimp on tools, even if they cannot afford them. With experience, many will be relied on less and less. Some will always be indespensible.

And throw away those cheapo three light testers, they make good night lights, but not much else.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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I think that using specialized testing equipment for a home inspection is like being caught in a bad Catch-22 episode of the Twilight Zone.


It should NOT be used as a substitute for training and experience, or you could get burned bad (e.g. basement moisture problems). You HAVE to look for the signs/indications. And if you have gained the experience/training needed you really dont need them because you are not trying to quantify your "visual observations".

I agree with throwing out those $10 "night lights", but IMHO you dont need to spend $200 on an outlet tester (e.g. SureTest ... really an electric circuit analyzer ... "analyzer" should be a red flag right there), when a $40 GB-Sure Wire will do just fine.

Just my 2-quarters (inflation) ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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“It should NOT be used as a substitute for training and experience,”


No, but it should be used in conjunction WITH your training and experience.

Anyone promoting an inspector not using specialized inspection equipment has, in my opinion, missed the inspection boat.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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I am quite sure that I’ve saved lives by having a gas leak sniffer and a Bacharach CO detector. Each about $250. Out of all the gadgets on the market, I like these two the most as they:


1. are simple to use.
2. have some positive marketing effect.
3. relate directly to safety.

Put each one in its own big padded tool box. The gas leak sniffers are durable but you have to treat the CO detectors gently.

Nick

PS Some areas of the country don't use combustible fuels.


Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Well, I guess I missed the “promotional” boat … but it was a leaky dingy ? lol. I have been doing residential and commercial inspections, evaluations, and designs for about 20 years without one claim or lawsuit … there is a reason for that.


Good point about the safety aspect, which is why I mentioned always recommending Fire/CO/gas detectors in a home. You can miss gas leaks either using your nose, soapy water, or meters and they can develop after you leave. The problem with using the meters is you may be blamed for missing a leak, even if you didn't. The best protection for a homeowner is to install the detectors (safety flag for me if not all there).

The promotional aspects can?t be overlooked, but IMO that's a individual business risk/benefit assessment, not a technical necessity or part of a ?visual observation?. And something you may want to talk to an attorney about before you travel down that potentially bumpy road.

I will pass ? just my 2-nickles (inflation).


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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icon_question.gif



Joseph Hagarty


HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Mr. President,


Aren't the odorants different in propane (LP Gas) and natural gas? I thought LP gas used Ethyl Mercaptan, an alcohol based mercaptan blend, and Natural Gas used TBM (tertiary butyl mercaptan) which is a butylene based mercaptan blend. So much for 9th grade chemistry, Both Stink, anyway ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Blaine


Originally Posted By: dave hartke
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Joe,


Thanks for clearing that up for me. I will breath easier now, knowing I can trust my Olfactory more. These "toolbox" talks are invaluable.

Dave H.


Originally Posted By: ltrower
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Has anyone tried out the new “no battery” flashlights yet? You shake them to power them up. They have a white LED light. They sound interesting but, wonder if they will work for HI.


Lee Trower


Originally Posted By: pgudek
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Lee, I had a guy tell me that when he was in world war II the Japaneese used these types of flash lights in the caves. I have one but it is more of a hassel than it’s worth. I use a police flashlight and the batteries will last about a month.