Originally Posted By: rcooke This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I know of one inspector who had his basement flooded from a dumped sump pump . I know of one electrician who bough $300:00` of food because he dumped a freezer and could not find the GFCI . If you dump a gfci and can not find it go and buy an extension cord for the freezer so you do not have to replace the food .
I STILL WILL NOT PUT MY SUMP PUMP ON A GFCI PERIOD.
Roy Cooke sr. Newer is not always better. Yes when I buy GFCI I do buy the better one with the little lock in the bottom left they do cost more and yes I do like GFCI in many places . MY son is from the new school as an Sparky and he to does not put sumps on GFCI.s.
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
Would you place a GFCI breaker in the panel if you were to "hard-wire" the sump pump? Why or why not?
No, I would not put a GFCI breaker in the panel. First, I would want to know what else was on that circuit. Second, I am not a firm believer in the GFCI protection is going to save everyone.
Since when are sump pumps "hard wired"? That in itself would be enough to flag the installation. Modification of equipment!
To honestly answer your question Jeff, I would not put the sump pump on GFCI protection, whether it was required or not. I am not a firm believer in GFCI protecting everything in the house that could possibly electrocute a person. I also believe that GFCI protection does have its place, just not for a sump pump. I also rarely call out GFCI protection for receptacles on basement walls, although the NEC and I disagree on that.
It really comes down to whether I, as an inspector, get to pick and choose the codes that I want to follow, or do I follow all of them. For my clients I follow all of them, for me, just the ones that make sense to me. 
Originally Posted By: tgettier This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
NEC 210.8 A 5
Exception 1
the nec does not say anything about a sump
as long as the sump is not in a crawl space you can use a dedicated single outlet and be with in the above exception so a sump in the basement on a non GFCI protected outlet is ok
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
Just like a pool pump rather than a submersible or ejector.
Jeff,
No, it would not be required. Unless you put it in the basement on a duplex receptacle which was at or below grade! 
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
(5) Unfinished basements ? for purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception No. 1: Receptacles that are not readily accessible.
Exception No. 2: A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(.
Exception No. 3: A receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.
The only way you could invoke ex 2 is if that receptacle was in the "dedicated space" for the sump pump. (whatever that is) Simply having a single won't do it.
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
rcooke wrote:
Sorry Greg are you an electrician or just going from what you have been told . Many things can cause a GFCI to dump A spike coming down the line from any where can cause them to dump . It can be from a motor burning out down the street a lightning strike many miles away .the body shop around the corner with a welder. I am a retired Sparky and will not have my Freezer fridge or sump pump on a GFCI sorry I will take the chance of a grnd fault in the pump over the safety of a GFCI . My opinion only others may differ .
Roy I disagree highly I'll try top keep it short 
1) The code aspects (NEC)
As has been said the type of equipment in use does not determine if a GFCI is required. It's all about location.
A sump pump in a basement may well be able to use the exception for a dedicated appliance. Move that sump pump into a crawl space and there are no NEC exceptions, any 15 or 20 amp 120 volt receptacle outlet installed in a crawl space would have to be GFCI protected.
2) The risks.
I will agree it is much more likely the GFCI will trip and kill the pump causing water damage then the GFCI will trip and save a life.
However for myself and my family I will take the water damage over the chance of an injured family member.
3) The urban legends
The likelihood of a 'false' trip is very low. If the sump pump always trips the GFCI there is something wrong with the pump.
To say that refrigerators, freezers and pumps can not run on GFCIs is ignoring the fact it happens every day on construction sites and commercial kitchens.
Since the 2002 NEC all 20 & 15 amp 120 volt receptacle outlets in commercial kitchens must be GFCI protected, there are no exceptions.
Since the 2005 all vending machines (including refrigerated ones) must be GFCI protected.
If this equipment is properly maintained it will run on a GFCI circuit.
If the machine trips a GFCI but will run normally on a regular circuit is not an indication of a bad GFCI it is a sign something is going on the machine.
You can buy a device called a leakage current detector that can test appliances to verify that the leakage current is within specifications. If the leakage current is to high the GFCI will trip or if on a 'normal' circuit with a failed grounding conductor it may give a lethal shock.
Now my own sump pump is on a GFCI it has been for at least a few years, never a problem.
My sump pump works hard and I just bought a backup one from Home Depot
Funny thing when I read the directions.
Sorry for the rant but IMO GFCIs are the best thing you can do for electrical safety.
Bob
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
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