Originally Posted By: staylor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I have left my NFPA-70 Electrical code book on a job site and need a code section to finish a new construction final report. I have a countertop in the kitchen with cabinets above and below that is separated from the other countertops in the kitchen. This area may be used as a desk or work area. The required outlets are not GFCI protected on this countertop. If my memory serves me correctly. All duplex receptacles at kitchen countertop spaces under current edition of electrical code are required to be GFCI protected. If anyone has a copy of current NEC and can site the code section, please advise so that I may finish this report this evening.
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
210.8(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (8 shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
(6) Kitchens ? where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces
Originally Posted By: staylor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Yes, I have the 93,96, 99, and have temporarily misplaced the 2002. I wanted to make sure that the section #'s had not changed before I put it in the report.
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
There is a lot of confusion about the wording of 210.52(B) but what it really means is any circuit feeding receptacles in the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling must be 20a and have no other outlets. The exception is that there can be a 15a if all it feeds is the fridge and a clock. There must be at least 2 of these 20a circuits. If the fridge circuit is 20a other receptacles can be on with the fridge. The GFCI requirements are in another article and don’t really have anything to do with the 20a circuit requirement. They just overlap because of the counter space in the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room or similar area. Note that a counter on the far side of a dining room, nowhere near the kitchen, will still need GFCI protection and that a 20a circuit that only feeds wall outlets in the dining room can be one of the 2 small appliance circuits. This can get sticky when a dining room morphs into the living room.
Originally Posted By: Monte Lunde This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
What is NEC definition of a countertop? Is not the area that you are talking about have a open space ( No Base cabinet) so that it can be used as a desk, it may have the same covering as the kitchen countertop but is it really a countertop by NEC definition?
Originally Posted By: staylor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
That is the question that the builder will raise. In this particular incidence, the countertop has base cabinets under each end with a clear space between the two base cabinets that may be used for a desk. The entire assembly is within the kitchen.
Originally Posted By: cbuell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Since the NEC 210.52 seems to say that “kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similiar area of a dwelling unit” are supposed to be covered by the “two or more 20-ampere small appliance branch circuits”, I would think that the countertop/desk situation would be GFCI protected.
Originally Posted By: cbuell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
It still seems like somewhat of a grey area, as just because they have to all those areas need to be on the two or more branch circuits not every receptacle is required to be GFCI protected. Oven times I will find that under test the dining room receps will trip the countertop GFCI.
Originally Posted By: Monte Lunde This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I don’t believe that a GFCI is required over a desk. The purpose of the GFCI originally, was for protections of areas within 6’ of a sink. This desk area is not even connected to the countertop of the kitchen cabinets.
Greg
Your statement: Countertop is not defined in the NEC but most AHJs would say it was any horizontal work surface.
Under that definition a kitchen table, dining room table, desk, work bench would be classify as a countertop for NEC purposes, for they are all a horizontal work surface. If that is the case then they would all be required to be GFCI protected, which I know is not the case.
I wonder if Joe Tedesco can give us a answer to the originally question.
-- Monte Lunde CCI, CCPM, CRI
Viking Construction Services Inc.
Originally Posted By: lkage This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Monte Lunde wrote:
Greg
You statement: Countertop is not defined in the NEC but most AHJs would say it was any horizontal work surface.
Under that definition a kitchen table, dining room table, desk, work bench would be classify as a countertop for NEC purposes, for they are all a horizontal work surface. If that is the case then they would all be required to be GFCI protected, which I know is not the case.
I think permanently installed (attached to the floor or wall) would be a safe assumption.
-- "I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him."
Galileo Galilei
Originally Posted By: jtedesco This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
I wonder if Joe Tedesco can give us a answer to the originally question.
I am here and I too have Questions:
1. When was this dwelling built?
2. What year and what edition of the code, if any was used?
You absolutely cannot apply any new rules to any existing dwelling premises wiring systems, because the NEC is not retroactive.
If you are quoting the NEC in your reports, I believe that it would not be in line with the Home Inspectors position while performing an electrical inspection as defined in the NACHI SOP.
Again, I admire the numbers and code years and references to the NEC.
Whenever I quoted the NEC in earlier discussions, I was told by some of the upper echelon that I should not make any reference to, and that the NEC was not any part of the HI duties.
Although, I still disagree with that, I tried to help using: "For Reference Only" as a way in which I could lend guidance to those who asked for help.
I believe that for the quick answers received here that the information as to the date of the permit would help a great deal.
Originally Posted By: Monte Lunde This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe
I believe that staylor said it is “NEW CONSTRUCTION”.
Your question #2 will hit the nail on the head as to what year edition of the NEC that the local BO's are using, I do not think that it is the 2005 Edition, goverment is too slow to act.
-- Monte Lunde CCI, CCPM, CRI
Viking Construction Services Inc.