Originally Posted By: kmcmahon This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I was talking to a buddy in the pre-fab home business and he stated something about a new code that requires at least one gfci in the bedrooms of all new construction. Another buddy heard that it is required in new homes but not new additions.
Originally Posted By: Dave Nix This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi Guys,
An Arc Fault Circuit Interupter (AFCI) is only available as a circuit breaker.
The reason being is that the design is such that it protects the entire circuit including any wire splices. The 2002 Code says that ALL bedroom OUTLETS shall be protected by an AFCI. That means not just receptacles but all electrical outlets, including lights.
Branch/feeder AFCI. This device is installed at the origin of a branch circuit or feeder like a panelboard. It provides parallel arc-fault protection for branch circuit wiring, cord sets, and power supply cords. It's not UL-Listed to provide series-type arc-fault protection.
Combination AFCI. This device, which is typically a receptacle, provides parallel and series arc-fault protection for branch circuit wiring, cord sets and power supply cords downstream from the device. It doesn't, however, provide parallel arc-fault protection upstream.
Outlet circuit AFCI This device is installed at a branch circuit outlet. It provides parallel and series arc-fault protection for the cord sets and power-supply cords plugged into the outlet. However, it doesn't provide arc-fault protection on feed-through branch circuit conductors, nor does it provide parallel arc-fault protection upstream from the device.
For the electronicaly minded, this is how a AFCI works
Originally Posted By: kmcmahon This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Is this rule grandfathered in? What I mean is do we need to report it in houses built before 2002 as a potential safety hazard if they are not installed?
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
You should report ALL missing (not installed) GFCIs. You can do this in a less alarmist matter if you feel the need to be less alarmist, i.e., “There were no GFCIs installed. Nationally recognized life safety codes (the National Electrical Codes) have recognized the safety need for GFCI since the 1971 NEC. Versions of the NEC since then have included more and more receptacles which are required, for safety reasons, to have GFCI protection. We recommend installing GFCI protection for all receptacles outlets at least in accordance with the latest NEC requirements AND in or near all wet areas.”
That way, you have called out the missing GFCIs without calling them out (in case you feel that need), AND, you have CYA. NOT CALLING THEM OUT leaves you A$$ exposed.
I would apply the same thought to calling out AFCIs.
I also report defects, and I consider the lack of GFCIs a defect. You do want your client alive to recommend you, don't you?
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
phinsperger wrote:
Dave Nix wrote:
An Arc Fault Circuit Interupter (AFCI) is only available as a circuit breaker.
You may however see them as a receptical or portable plugin in the near future.
Dave was, I think, referring to AFCIs which meet and fulfill the requirements of the code.
AFCIs installed downstream of the breakers do not meet those requirements.
Yes, you may see those in the near future, in fact, they were made available already (then withdrawn, I think). They were made available for installation as GFCIs are installed, then not accepted for use as they did not fulfill the requirements of protecting the entire branch circuit.
IF you see AFCI receptacles, they DO NOT meet the requirements of the code. It is like installing child protective covers on receptacles, it's good protection, but there is no code which requires that.
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
“I also report defects, and I consider the lack of GFCIs a defect.”
What Jerry pointed out is 100% correct. That is his 'expert' opinion.
His opinion and mine differ from time to time. Please note that we both tell the clients of these conditions, just in different ways.
The point that I am making is these opinions are 'expert' opinions. And I still think that you should be an expert before you call out 'defects' in a given trade.
Most inspectors are using these cookie-cutter guidelines for thier inspections. Please do not read anything into the previous line.
Electrical inspections should be done on a case by case basis. That is why I think that inspecting the electrical IS performing an Electrical Inspection.
Turning lights on and off or a using a plug tester is one thing. Removing the panel cover or commenting on grounding/bonding issues are to be performed by licensed or certified professionals.
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mike Parks wrote:
Turning lights on and off or a using a plug tester is one thing. Removing the panel cover or commenting on grounding/bonding issues are to be performed by licensed or certified professionals.
Mike P.
Mike,
In the technical sense, you are correct, except that SoP require removing the panel covers and reporting on what is inside, as do (I believe) most (if not all) state HI licensing regulations.
Thus (in the states where those SoP have been adopted or referred to) those inspections are no longer left to the licensed or certified electricians, they are now also included in with other licensed or certified professionals - the licensed HIs.
I think, from a safety standpoint, not just from an electrical standpoint, that all HIs should recommend the installation of GFCI in all wet areas, whether required at the time of construction or not. And no, that does not make the home inspection a safety inspection.
