AFCI's

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1

Originally Posted By: Phil Avery
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Would like your comments on a comment that was made yesterday.


History, I did another inspection for this Agent approx. 1 mo. ago.

I was going over a report with the Buyers and Agent, Got to the Electrial section and said, Recommend adding AFCI circuit breakers for bedroom outlets for safety, and gave them a copy of the page stating this from the 2002 NEC. The Agent said, We have gone over this before, the last time you made this comment, We checked into this and it's not required !

Both houses were built in 2003.

She stated that the Subdivision was started in 1999, the bill of assurance (I believe that is what she stated, is'nt that what gives all the info re: the subdivision, square footage, how much brick, etc., etc.) said that you did not have to meet this requirement. I stated that I'ts my duty to report on something that is wrong according to the NEC, and that I have no way of knowing what every city, much less every subdivision in every city has for local codes.

In my opnion, there is no freaking way that this could be, is there??? That's bascially saying that if this or that subdivision was started in 1940 and there's one lot left and I buy it today that I only have to meet the 1940's code ? I can't image that this piece of paper does not state to "meet current building codes" unless something is slightly different.

I have a call into the local building inspector, but he's out for a while.

Just wanted to hear other peoples comments. If I'm wrong, I will eat crow, LOL. Just seems strange to me.



UPDATE - Just received a call from the local city inspector. He said that the subdivision was BS, BUT they did not adopt the AFCI being installed at bedroom circuits until 2004. So any house builting in 2004 or later they are required.

Thanks,

Phil

2

Originally Posted By: jlybolt
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My understanding was:


Effective January 1, 2002, NFPA 70, The National Electrical Code (NEC), Section 210-12, requires that all branch circuits supplying 125V, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms be protected by an arc-fault Circuit interrupter.
Regardless different areas follow different codes.
Hope this helps.

3

Originally Posted By: sobrien
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jlybolt wrote:
My understanding was:

Effective January 1, 2002, NFPA 70, The National Electrical Code (NEC), Section 210-12, requires that all branch circuits supplying 125V, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms be protected by an arc-fault Circuit interrupter.
Regardless different areas follow different codes.
Hope this helps.


Any Canadians know if this is is up here yet? I couldnt find anything in the BCBC.

Sean
4

Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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Phil Avery wrote:
Recommend adding AFCI circuit breakers for bedroom outlets for safety


I see the "requirement" as a moot point. You are advising your clients on a way to better protect themselves. I am sorry to hear that their agent views the clients safety as a stumbling block to closing the deal.

With saftey issues I routinely recommend upgrades. They are worded as such so as to provide a distinction from defects but the client has been given the recommendation never the less.


http://realtytimes.com/rtcpages/20020514_caafcis.htm

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Paul Hinsperger
Hinsperger Inspection Services
Chairman - NACHI Awards Committee
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5

Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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sobrien wrote:
Any Canadians know if this is is up here yet? I couldnt find anything in the BCBC.

Sean


http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/commsvcs/LICANDINSP/bulletins/2002/2002-009.PDF

--
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Paul Hinsperger
Hinsperger Inspection Services
Chairman - NACHI Awards Committee
Place your Award Nominations
here !
6

Originally Posted By: sobrien
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WOW… Thanks for those links…


Showed me up didn’t you! icon_smile.gif


Sean

7

Originally Posted By: Phil Avery
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


"My understanding was:


Effective January 1, 2002, NFPA 70, The National Electrical Code (NEC), Section 210-12, requires that all branch circuits supplying 125V, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms be protected by an arc-fault Circuit interrupter. "

That was my understanding also, I was wrong, LOL.

The problem I have is, There is NO WAY to follow all the different codes of the different cities, It just makes me want to shut my mouth.
Like the example of AFCI's, NEC says put it in, but the city of Cabot says NOPE. No way to know what they decide to pick and choose out of each of the code books, How do you say, lets use the 2002 version, BUT lets take out a couple of sections.

I do inspections for approx. 8 different places that have 8 different code of ordinances. After this happened yesterday, I tried to do some research, the city I live in actually "adopted" the 1996 version of the NEC.
No need to state AFCI's here, LOL.

I used to recommend all the exhaust fans from bathrooms be vented outside to keep the moisture out of the attic space. Not anymore, we don't do that around here, LOL. I kept gettng my butt chewed out for putting that on my reports since it's not a requirement. I believe it was the arkansas mech. code that stated that exhausting into the attic was okey-dokie.

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Originally Posted By: aleleika
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Phil Avery wrote:


I used to recommend all the exhaust fans from bathrooms be vented outside to keep the moisture out of the attic space. Not anymore, we don't do that around here, LOL. I kept gettng my butt chewed out for putting that on my reports since it's not a requirement. I believe it was the arkansas mech. code that stated that exhausting into the attic was okey-dokie.


I think you would still want to advise your clients that it would be a good idea to vent it to the outside in the future...Its like GFCI's..If a house was grandfathered in for not having GFCI's, Don't we still recommend installing them. I think we have to look beyond the actuall closing of the property and not look at what needs to be "Fixed" in order for the house to be sold, but advise the client on what he may want to do after he takes ownership to get the longest life out of his systems and components in the house.

IMHO

--
A. Dan Leleika
www.a-teamhomeinspections.com
9

Originally Posted By: lewens
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As a Canadian I don’t understand all this talk about code. You people must be code crazy. It is not, as far as I’m concerned, a question of code it is about safety. If the building is standing you have to assume it passed building inspection at the time of construction, end of story. We are not building inspectors, we are not code inspectors, we are home inspectors. If we make recommendations based on safety issues and the current owner or buyer do not heed our advice that is their problem not ours. I do not tell clients these things must be fixed or the sale won’t go through, or what ever. I tell my clients, you have hired me to give you a fair evaluation of the home and I will do just that. I will tell them what I know is a real repair issue i.e. a roof in need of recovering or a foundation that has failed etc. but anything that is not a major issue is up to the client to make a judgment call on. If they decide it is not in their best interest to do the little stuff like AFCI or GFCI installation then that is their issue not mine. I did my job by bringing up the issue and what they do about it is not within my mandate as a home inspector. All we can do is advise not demand. We are not building inspectors we are home inspectors.


Just my 12.5 cents,


Larry[/u]

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Just my usual 12.5 cents


From The Great White North Eh?
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Originally Posted By: aleleika
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lewens wrote:
...it is about safety. ....

.......We are not building inspectors we are home inspectors.

Just my 12.5 cents,
Larry[/u]


Very well said...Thats exactly what I was trying to convey ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

--
A. Dan Leleika
www.a-teamhomeinspections.com
11

Originally Posted By: Phil Avery
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Agree ! All I was trying to state was, that it gets very, very old when your Recommend something for safety and the agents keep saying, that’s not code. I agree, i’m not a code inspector, don’t want to be, that’s why on a few items (like afci or gfci, etc.) I recommend for Safety, not due to code.


Phil

12

Originally Posted By: chorne
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maybe you should call it out as"existing nonconforming", or substandard


and let the parties hash it out.


Carla