Originally Posted By: ismetaniuk
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This membership was a big waste of my time!
–
Igor
Top To Bottom Inspections
Glen Spey, NY
This membership was a big waste of my time!
Originally Posted By: rray
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I think even ASHI non-defectors and non-disgruntled members are welcome to post.
–
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.
Originally Posted By: dburrows
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This is my first attempt at a post on the message board even though I enjoy reading them from time to time. My experience and response is almost identical to Igor as I joined ASHI and NACHI a little over a year ago. I was also a full ASHI candidate with the required inspections and review of my previous inspections.
However, as Igor stated, they have lost touch with their membership and passing on this excessive cost of “ASHI branding” to membership is ridiculous. I dropped my affiliation with ASHI a few weeks ago and called to advise them of the reasons. I can’t afford to be in ASHI with all the on-going costs of branding, yearly dues, testing costs, and politics they play which is passed on to membership. Over time, it will get even worse.
David Burrows
Home Inspection Specialists, LLC
Daleville, VA
Originally Posted By: rking
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
David,
Welcome!
Enjoy the ride with NACHI as I think most of us do.
--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: Scott Warga
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David,
I am glad you are here and I don’t want this to be taken wrong but.
How can you criticize ASHI when you didn’t get involved.
For example you logged on to the ASHI board for the first time in January of this year, you logged on a total of 6 times before your last log in in February of this year. 6 log-ins in 6 weeks.
Perhaps you should check out the board again. You will find I started a new topic called "Candidate Corner". This is a place where candidates can e-mail a question if they want. There are photos posted so you can look at them and try to determine what is wrong. If you are unsure you can e-mail the person that posted the photo so that no one knows if you made a mistake.
ASHI is not perfect, no organization is, however the tools are there if you want to use them.
--
Scott M. Warga
President
Ark Inspections Inc.
Gilbert, Arizona
Originally Posted By: jburkeson
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| Quote: |
| Perhaps you should check out the board again. You will find I started a new topic called "Candidate Corner". |
Hi Scott,
Can you explain why anyone should bother becoming an "ASHI Candidate"? and what possible value this path provides in the HI marketplace?
My experience is that anyone who is savvy enough to ask about your ASHI status, when finding out that you are a "Candidate" will move on to find a "Member".
If I were still a "Candidate" I would hide that fact and request that my name be removed from the website. Furthermore I would suggest that you don't attempt to trade on your diminutive ASHI status, wait until you are a full member.
Scott, maybe I am missing something and you can enlighten me, but my experience is that ASHI uses the candidate's time and money simply to further the ASHI status-quo. Not only doesn't the candidate benefit from this pigeon-holing but the relationship actually thwarts his ability to conduct business while promoting and protecting members.
Joe Burkeson, Certified Inspector.
--
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)
?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Originally Posted By: Scott Warga
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe,
I am not trying to start anything. I too was once an ASHI candidate. I can say with out a doubt that I am a better inspector because of what I learned on the board. The chapter meetings are great and there are people that will help you if you just ask.
People need to ask better questions, I used to get asked "Are you ASHI?"
I would respond "No I'm Scott but I am affiliated with ASHI" That opened the door for me to continue the discussion.
I have found that many of the ASHI inspectors are more than willing to help someone that truly wants to better themselves.
However there are a lot of guys getting into the business that think this is easy money and are looking for the easy way. I don't want to have anything to do with these guys.
I know an advantage of this organization is that if you pass the test and pay the dues you can be a member. But I ask these questions to anyone that has performed over 200 inspections.
Do you inspect houses today the same way that you did the first 50?
Were the first 50 as through as the last 10? 
This board seem like a nice place, I am not looking for a fight. I just don't like seeing people criticize something that they really didn't give a fighting chance.
--
Scott M. Warga
President
Ark Inspections Inc.
Gilbert, Arizona
Originally Posted By: jburkeson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| Quote: |
| I have found that many of the ASHI inspectors are more than willing to help someone that truly wants to better themselves.
However there are a lot of guys getting into the business that think this is easy money and are looking for the easy way. I don't want to have anything to do with these guys. |
Yes Scott I understand that when the only tool you possess is a hammer all problems look like nails, some of us came to ASHI not in search of help but seeking respect, recognition and fraternity and were segregated out for our supposed lack of experience. BTW, do you really believe there is virtue automatically attached to doing something "the hard way"?
Understand this, the Home Inspection business is no longer attracting the fast-buck artists that ASHI is so quick to defend our profession from. Far form it would be more the case as most new HI professionals are coming to HI from other successful business and trades and are not the naive rookies that the "membership" makes them out to be.
Joe Burkeson, Certified Inspector
--
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)
?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Originally Posted By: Tom Logan
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Scott,
ASHI paid a consultant firm $100,000 to perform a survey. The survey revealed that only 7% of the home inspectors are asked, "Do you belong to ASHI".
Scott, being an ASHI member does not make a person a good home inspector. Same goes for the other associations.
Scott, ASHI was totally against licensing in the past. When ASHI found out that state licensing would destroy their membership, ASHI decided to take over the industry by using your dues for PAC money and pay off the powers to be.
Scott, do not kid yourself, ASHI is screwing the consumer to survive.
It is ASHI National, not the members, screwing the consumer. ASHI National is taking your money to screw the members and the consumer.
Scott, why would an association not give you the right to use the ASHI logo unless you a member? Because the members of the chapters have the advantage of getting more business. So Scott, who is protecting who?
TL
Originally Posted By: Scott Warga
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| Quote: |
| Understand this, the Home Inspection business is no longer attracting the fast-buck artists that ASHI is so quick to defend our profession from. Far form it would be more the case as most new HI professionals are coming to HI from other successful business and trades and are not the naive rookies that the "membership" makes them out to be. |
Maybe this is true in your corner of the world but it could not be further from the truth here.
Many of the schools are teaching how to reduce your liability, not how to inspect the house. In AZ, after you have gone to school for 80 hours, after you have passed the test, after you get fingerprinted and go through a FBI background check you have to go on 30 inspections with an inspector that is already certified. I get two calls a week from guys that don't know what a service panel is or the difference between a hip or a gable.
Just because a person was in construction does not mean they have experience needed to be a home inspector. A person that framed for 10 years does not know the electrical and HVAC systems because he has construction experience.
Make no mistake:
People will pay to go to school, and not learn.
Schools will get paid, and not teach.
You will learn from every inspection you do and will be a better inspector after the 200 than the second.
--
Scott M. Warga
President
Ark Inspections Inc.
Gilbert, Arizona
Originally Posted By: dfrend
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| Quote: |
| I know an advantage of this organization is that if you pass the test and pay the dues you can be a member. But I ask these questions to anyone that has performed over 200 inspections.
Do you inspect houses today the same way that you did the first 50? Were the first 50 as through as the last 10? |
I am a "rookie" member. I have a strong grasp for the business however and am comfortable in my inspection abilities even at such an early stage in this profession. I am not here to make an easy buck. In fact I had to take another job to pay the bills.
I have a big problem with the above quote. I think its basis is flawed. I am positive that after 200 inspections I will have much MORE knowledge in the trade and do a much more thorough inspection. Does that mean that I do not do a good, thorough inspection now? If that is the case then wouldn't you have been in the same boat in your time as a candidate? You did less than thorough inspections? Same for everyone here when they were new members? I doubt it seriously.
Like I said in 200 inspections I am sure my skills as an inspector will be much greater. But would I rather do the IMHO thorough inspections I do now as a member, making it easier to get those 200 because I can advertise the fact? Or would I want to do my IMHO thorough inspection as a candidate and not be able to advertise to the world that I am a certified member? The choice is easy for me.
It to me is like being a parent. Your first kid, you are not prepared for. How could you be? Doesn't mean your skills aren't good enough to raise the kid good. By the time they grow a little, you are like an old pro. You could take parenting classes before them, but the job is only really fine tuned through practice.
Sure I want to make money doing this. Don't you? But I wouldn't be doing it if I felt my skills were less than adequate to do the job right. I see even seasoned veterans in this field find things new to them. They ask the other members for help and it turns into a learning process. You could never know everything. That is one thing the FD has taught me. But the more you practice, the better you get. And for me, my MEMBER status gets me customers and gives me more practice.
 I am a Member of the National Association of Certified Home Inspectors, and I WILL tell every potential client  No matter what ASHI might say it is something to be proud of, even if I am inexperienced as an inspector!
--
Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: dfrend
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| Quote: |
| People will pay to go to school, and not learn.
Schools will get paid, and not teach. You will learn from every inspection you do and will be a better inspector after the 200 than the second. |
Again, to reiterate, what is the point. Should you have not been allowed to do inspections when you did your first? How did you make it to 200? What you said is true about being better after 200, but is it any better for a client to hire an ASHI candidate with 10 inspections or a NACHI member with 10 inspections. Being the ASHI candidate doesn't mean you are any better of a "rookie" inspector.
But as a "rookie" inspector, NACHI member, I will point out that I am a certified inspector. Sure that doesn't mean my counterpart in ASHI wouldn't do just as good an inspection, but it helps me get the client and the experience under my belt.
Picture this: Take two equal inspectors (I know no 2 people are the same, but just to see the point!!!!). One is a rookie ASHI candidate, the other a rookie NACHI member. They do the same inspections. 200 later they are at the same level because of the skills they learned along the way. Both more seasoned. NACHI member is still a NACHI member paying the SAME thing as when he started. The ASHI candidate has to cut his bottom line so he can become a full member. I'll keep my profits thanks!
--
Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: rking
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Scott,
With all due respect, the problem with ASHI's message board is that you must be a meber of ASHI to use it.
I am a member of OAHI, for now, and there is no message board on their site, but I do not understand why ASHI must make a message board available only to members.
Is it not in ASHI's bylaws, as it is in OAHI's, to work with like minded organizations towards the betterment of the profession as a whole?
I believe, as I think a lot of others do, that competition is healthy. It is also good for all of us HI's to be able to get along professionally, otherwise how does the viewing public, our clients, see us??
--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: Scott Patterson
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As I have posted many times before on many other forums, each home inspector organization is different. All have followed the path set by one in 1976, and many have fallen by the wayside over those years.
Many offered certifications that have little merit, but lulled the public into thinking that the person they were hiring held a certification. I even have a certificate that says our family cat Bocephus "Bo" Patterson is a "Certified Master Home Inspector with the "National Home Inspector Society" #NHIS1358. To the public the word Certification means the same as a license. They have no clue that the person might have been changing oil on a Ford last week at the local oil change shop.
In the eight years of being a fulltime home inspector, I bet I have been asked my professional affiliation only a few times, but I have been asked if I am licensed hundreds of times.
This is from the Websters dictionary (Online):
Main Entry: cer?ti?fy
Pronunciation: 's&r-t&-"fI
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -fied; -fy?ing
Etymology: Middle English certifien, from Middle French certifier, from Late Latin certificare, from Latin certus certain -- more at CERTAIN
Date: 14th century
1 : to attest authoritatively: as a : CONFIRM b : to present in formal communication c : to attest as being true or as represented or as meeting a standard d : to attest officially to the insanity of
2 : to inform with certainty : ASSURE
3 : to guarantee (a personal check) as to signature and amount by so indicating on the face
4 : CERTIFICATE, LICENSE
- cer?ti?fi?able /-"fI-&-b&l/ adjective
- cer?ti?fi?ably /-blE/ adverb
- cer?ti?fi?er /-"fI(-&)r/ noun
synonyms CERTIFY, ATTEST, WITNESS, VOUCH mean to testify to the truth or genuineness of something. CERTIFY usually applies to a written statement, especially one carrying a signature or seal <certified that the candidate had met all requirements>. ATTEST applies to oral or written testimony usually from experts or witnesses <attested to the authenticity of the document>. WITNESS applies to the subscribing of one's own name to a document as evidence of its genuineness <witnessed the signing of the will>. VOUCH applies to one who testifies as a competent authority or a reliable person <willing to vouch for her integrity>. synonym see in addition APPROVE
I understand the need to project to the public that you are not new in the business and have all the experience as any other home inspector, I started out new eight years ago. I struggled for the first couple, worked a part-time job and made a name for myself. I did not join a professional organization until I had been in the business for about three years.
My suggestion is too choose an origination that fits your needs, and not to cut down the other associations as some day you might have a change of heart and it's best to never to burn bridges. Keep an open mind.
Originally Posted By: rking
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Scott P.
By no means was I intending on "cutting down" any organization. I believe that all of us should work together no matter what organization we may belong to.
I said that in my last post, but obviously you feel the need to be defensive for some reason.
If I had it my way the governments of both US and Canada would be sitting down with all of the powers that be in this profession and hammering out some sort of mutually agreeable legislation that benefits each and every one of us.
That probably will not happen though because of certain factions that want to control everything.
Monopolies only work for the people at the top of the chain in that monopoly.
Every one else gets screwed including the clients who pay our bills!
--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: Scott Patterson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| rking wrote: |
| Scott,
With all due respect, the problem with ASHI's message board is that you must be a meber of ASHI to use it. I am a member of OAHI, for now, and there is no message board on their site, but I do not understand why ASHI must make a message board available only to members. Is it not in ASHI's bylaws, as it is in OAHI's, to work with like minded organizations towards the betterment of the profession as a whole? I believe, as I think a lot of others do, that competition is healthy. It is also good for all of us HI's to be able to get along professionally, otherwise how does the viewing public, our clients, see us?? |
The NAHI forum is not open to the public. The Realtors forums are not open to the public. Many professional associations forums are not open to the public. We have several public home inspection forums that have no association affiliations available to us:
http://www.inspectorsjournal.com/forum/
http://inspectionnews.com/ http://professionalinspector.com/forum/forumtoc.asp
I think in the coming year you will see the major associations having more productive and joint talks in the hopes of improving our industry.
Originally Posted By: rking
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Scott,
I hope you are right! I am also active on those boards plus a few non public ones, but I find I spend most of my time on this board because of the help and advice provided, in most cases free of bias or slanted opinions.
--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| Quote: |
| a standard d : to attest officially to the insanity of |
I think in many ways the bickering over associations is like fleas arguing the benefits of the dog that they live on  
But seriously our industry is changing fast, brought about by the requirements in many states of licensing (not a bad thing IMHO) and by our own requirements to carry E&O to protect our assets should we get sued for making a blatant mistake. I believe that the key to all of our future success is in education for ourselves, and educating the consumer as to what and how we inspect.
It would be great to see all the trade associations working together towards that goal, I for one have the greatest respect for those from other organizations who have taken the time to join our boards, find out who we are and start sensible dialogs in this forum.
Maybe this forum due to it's open nature will be the place where our differences get aired and may be sorted out. I don't believe for a minute that ASHI, NACHI, NAHI, CREIA et al will get all warm and fuzzy over each other anytime soon, but all the organizations have members who see the bigger picture, as to our industries development, and are increasingly joining us either as members or welcomed guests.
Regards
"certifiable" Gerry
--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466
Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com
"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: rking
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Gerry!
I thought maybe you had gone and hidden somewhere it has been so long since I saw you post anything.
Nice to see you're "certifiable"  opinion back
--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large
Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Scott:
I don't know about the other 2 you mention. I never visited them. But I can assure you that http://www.inspectionews.com is NOT a public home inspection forum.
I myself know of 6 people who can't access that board. Must be more.
Gerry:
NACHI's KOI Chapter http://www.nachi.org/koichapter and KREIA at http://www.kreia.org now hold their monthly meetings together. We're all inspectors, no?
I know its the exception.
Nick