A public plea to ASHI...

Archive Public Archive
1

Originally Posted By: gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


ASHI then disgustingly encourage these no-qualifications whatsoever guys to go out and perform inspections for poor unsuspecting consumers as the only way to reach full membership. Desperate, these Candidates cut prices. This public practice of ASHI’s is unconscionable.


ASHI is making it very difficult for our industry to raise its prices as we all have to compete with ASHI's dumping... so it hurts inspectors.

ASHI is also harming consumers by maintaining a public policy of encouraging these Come with only Cash Candidates to perform actual inspections for unsuspecting consumers.

I think we should agree and publicly announce to quadruple the amount of education one must complete to apply for membership in NACHI if ASHI will just raise their application standards a little. Currently they have none...nada...zip.

Any objections to this? I posted here so ASHI members can comment as well.

--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

2

Originally Posted By: dharris
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Here we go again. What does it take for you to get it thru your thick skull that your on line unproctored quiz and membership requirments that are not enforced are useless and nothing but a joke? icon_idea.gif icon_idea.gif


It looks like the concerned and professional home inspectors that are aware of your bogus quiz to qualify home inspectors as "certified" to the public need to have a few more reporters take your on line non proctored quiz, and have you proclaim their certified.

The new home inspectors that rely solely on taking your quiz and your word with no other qualifications are not qualified to perform inspections to the standards and qualificiation that other professional orgs demand of new inspectors prior to marketing them to the public as qualified and professional home inspectors.

By the way hows that list of 1800 ASHI members coming that joined NACHI in the past year?

A fact you failed to state, New ASHI members are made aware of what is required of them to have the privilege of having ASHI marketing them as qualified ASHI inspectors, that privilege is earned and cannot be bought for 289.00

3

Originally Posted By: rbennett
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Mr Harris


Please re read the above.

It is very hard to compete with someone who is motivated to get his numbers up so he can put a label on the side of his truck so he can maybe make more money to cover the money he has lost trying to get his numbers up

Then he goes out of business (with 300 inspections at a $ loss) because someone else just came into the industry trying make the numbers

All orgs. can help their mems with more education (reading comprehension should be offered to some??)

So re read and understand that the problem is the lack of knowledge not the lack of a harder test. (Some org just take $ and don't even offer a quiz to get in)

The rope is being raised

The standard is not how may miles you have driven to get a license but if you have passed driver ed.

So get some CE before you find out that someone is putting you out of business with lower prices to get their ## up

I hope the closeness of professional orgs does not approach anti trust?? (bad play on words)



RLB

4

Originally Posted By: lungar
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Mr Harris;


It was so ridiculous that news reporter. Do you forget what he said that he had help from a maintenance person not just he alone, the person was sitting next to him in the show!!! Also what about ASHI inspector well known also with PHIC doing a p-ss/poor job. But thats OK. Wake up


Mr Harris, don’t you think its time for everyone to try to work together so as to help our industry? Stop acting like kids,lets all grow up and work together for a better HOME INSPECTION INDUSTRY.


Regards Len

5

Originally Posted By: dharris
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Work together?


No problem, The problem I have is the owner of your org feels it’s necessary to inform the public that I or any other ASHI inspector may not be qualified to perform inspections if I did not take his quiz to be personally certified by him.

6

Originally Posted By: jmertins
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


dharris wrote:
Work together?
No problem, The problem I have is the owner of your org feels it's necessary to inform the public that I or any other ASHI inspector may not be qualified to perform inspections if I did not take his quiz to be personally certified by him.


Without getting everyone all wound up let's take a look at that statement. I do not think that Nick's words are the end all on who is able or qualified to perform inspections. For all the good that he has created and people he has helped if you fear his word and believe it will hurt your business some thicker skin you must wear down the road.
There are many a good inspectors who are independent guys, no assoc./trade group.

So many HI's forget about the business side of this...we have to market against each other head to head and whatever you can do to reach or appeal to your buyer(within ethics) do it. Open your eyes when you watch TV, listen to the radio, read billboards, all companies market against each other. If you want to be a part of ASHI, great...there are some great HI's with them, NAHI, good for you, whoever, great good job

One more thing to look at.

Coke versus Pepsi
Ford versus Chevy
Cable versus satellite
Tide versus Cheer

It is a part of Business. Go back and read the marketing post by Russell Ray...it is all about reaching the customer. If you have the accreditations to do the job, your next job is reaching the customer!!!

--
John Mertins

Baxter Home Inspections, Inc.

"Greatness courts failure"

Roy "Tin Cup" McAvoy
7

Originally Posted By: apightling
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


OK Mr. Harris. I will put the topic at hand in smaller sentences.


Nick stated ASHI allows home inspector candidates in its ranks with no qualifications other than paying a fee. Is that correct? OK, once you accept that this is correct we can go on to the next point. . . .

Great. . . moving along . . . then ASHI mandates those candidates do a number of inspections before they can 'advance'. Is that correct? . . . same criteria . . .

It follows then that these generally inexperienced home inspectors are going to do two things . . . 1. attract clients that otherwise would not use such inexperienced HIs by dropping their prices. and 2. in doing so undermine those who have more experience. . . . have I still got you on board?

Very good. Now that we acknowledge things that are obvious about ASHI can you understand why Nick would be concerned?

Nothing I said had anything to do with you personally unless you are one of the poor schmucks that are being driven to provide shoddy workmanship due to, (to be kind) misguided organizational practices.

It fries my butt . . to have clients call me for a price quote and state so and so will do the job for half of what I charge. I look into so and so and find an ASHI. I usually advise the prospective client to check into the qualifications of the low balling HI and I follow up with a letter, phone call, or email with my qualifications.

I could take a wild guess and say Nick doesn't really care if you personally take a test or don't. However, if you continue to support an organization that degrades the HI profession I suspect he would consider you . . . . voluntarily uninformed. I know I do.

8

Originally Posted By: mcyr
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


icon_rolleyes.gif icon_rolleyes.gif icon_rolleyes.gif


Mr. Harris;

I have been a member of NACHI for over a year now, and have enjoyed every moment and priveleges that are provided by this organization.
When I decided to join a Home Inspection Certification Program to become a Certified Home Inspector, I reveived all avenues available, and I do dare say that ASHI was not one of them. They want your money, and poogh, you are certified.

NACHI, at least, requires you to pass a test upfront, which will indicate wether or not you have a clue as to wether or not you are qualified to do Home Inspections.
In your estimation per your forum note, what other qualifications do you think is required?, yours?.

ASHI members get started with no physical work into what actually gets Inspected and market what they think is right, but have no clue and never learned what is right.

I see this in Maine, and realize now that it was easy to become a Home Inspector after talking to local Home Inspectiors from ASHI.
I can't screw it up any more that they can, is what I said to myself.

Passing the NACHI on-line exam out front is about the closest thing you will ever get to the real qualifications for being or wanting to be a Home Inspector. Talking to an ASHI inspector, when my daughter sold her house, is what prompted me to persue being a Home Inspector myself.

It was at that point, that I made a dicision as to who provided the best service, continued education availability, recourse, and continued and required education for the Certification awarded.

ASHI was not there, and was not even close to the required qualification.

In my book, I made the right choice.
To add to the qualifications, that you might think is required, I have this to add:

I literally got bored at building houses when I was 21 years of age.
My father was one hell of a craftsmen and teacher.
He died when I was 22 years old.
I have been with the same General Contractor in Commercial Building for the last 35 years.
I do Home Inspections part time.
I am a finish carpenter by trade
I am a crane operator up to 60 tons.
We do foundations at the commercial level.
We erct steel structures at the commercial level.

I passed the NACHI exam the first time around and thought the darn test was very difficult,due it covered all components over the whole country.

If you think that the NACHI exam is a farse, let me tell you, that you do not have a clue.

It will take more than two to five years on a Construction Site and six months taking a correspondence course on Home Inspections to become a NACHI Member. ASHI dose not even come close. Sorry.

Marcel

9

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


I found an ad by an ASHI Candidate offering full home inspections for $85. ASHI must stop this practice if we want to get paid what we’re really worth in this industry. Besides, ASHI’s policy harms consumers.


I'm not picking on ASHI, I'm just pointing to the source of our industry's pricing problem and trying to solve it...but I can't without ASHI's help. I am sure NACHI members will not disagree with me when I say that NACHI is very willing to quadruple our existing pre-education requirements if ASHI will just reciprocate a little.

--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

10

Originally Posted By: lewens
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Mr Harris


I don’t think you get the point yet so I feel I have to wade in here and give you the Canadian perspective. We also have an association with basically the same criteria for joining and becoming a home inspector as ASHI, as a matter of fact the COE and SOP are almost, word for word, a copy of the ASHI standards. OAHI is so close to being ASHI north as to be frightening. There are “inspectors” in my area who are doing inspections for $175.00 and believe me they are not NACHI members. When I come up against these guys I just shake my head and walk away. I have been told by one realtor that he uses a cheap inspector cause if they get sued he ponies up the money and chalks it up to the cost of doing business. With an attitude like that it is not surprising the industries, both real estate and inspections are getting a bad rap. All Nick is saying is screen a little better upon letting someone in and try to let the newbie make a living without cutting off his balls by calling him a “student, applicant” or what ever. These guys are members and if you are not proud of them for joining your organization by letting them be an active pert of the process, whatever that happens to be, then get the hell out of the association business and leave it to someone like NACHI, who, as far as I can see are doing more for the industry than anyone else.


Just my 12.5 cents


Larry

–
Just my usual 12.5 cents


From The Great White North Eh?
NACHI-CAN
www.aciss-brant.com
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com/
11

Originally Posted By: rwand
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Larry


Thats the problem the other association is not marketing its members, and providing them with marketing tips and help. It never has been and has a long way to go in that department. The application process is tedious, costly, time consuming and very poor turn around. I don't see why a professional self regulating body just doesn't get out of teaching its own courses, by its own inspectors. Let the colleges do that. The review system is stale and desperately needs an overhaul. The red tape is just to cumbersome to administer and is not always done fairly without appropriate safeguards in my opinion. Until the attitude changes you will have people as you describe in the other association stagnating and taking desperate pricing measures to survive. Good luck to them, I think they are selling themselves short and the industrys image. In my opinion it is not a good time to be entering the profession, the market is saturated, the biz has been over hyped for years.

The way I see it the market is the controlling factor not necessarily what association you belong to.

Oh well thats my story and I'm sticking to it. ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

Cheers,
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON

--
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905

http://www.raymondwand.ca
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (R.H.I.)

12

Originally Posted By: Scott Patterson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Nick and others;


I am entering my 12th year in this profession, and from what I have seen the low price home inspections come from mostly new inspectors who are trying to break into the market regardless of their affiliation. Sure, you will have exceptions to this.

I have a few questions for Y'all;

1. Why is it that the NACHI exam is not proctored, and that anyone with a computer can take it regardless if the person taking it is the person who will be certified by NACHI?

2. Is it not true that if NACHI had a proctored exam that the numbers joining NACHI would drop?

3. How does NACHI verify that its members are performing inspections and writing reports to the NACHI standards?

4. Is it not true that anyone can become a certified home inspector with NACHI even if they have not performed an inspection?

5. Why is the NACHI exam an open book exam?

6. Why is it that NACHI has more inspectors who have been in the business less than one year than NAHI or ASHI and consequently have less experience?

So, as you can see all organizations have their share of new inspectors with no experience. Now the only organization that does not allow its members to advertise that they belong to it unless they have passed the NHIE, had their reports verified and completed at least 50 inspections in ASHI! This is one reason that ASHI has a high number of experienced inspectors, many join NACHI at first and then step up to ASHI or NAHI after they have the experience and knowledge.



Scott Patterson

13

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Candidates to go out and do their first inspections for a poor, unsuspecting consumers is unconcienable. So at NACHI we require your first 4 inspections (if you’ve never done any inspections before) to be Mock inspections on their own homes or a friends home for no fee and to send them into our report review committee… not real inspections for poor consumers like ASHI publicly encourages. ASHI must stop this practice as well. It is disgusting.


4. Yes. Just like one can become an attorney without having a client. Unlike ASHI though... the first inspections performed by NACHI members (if they've never done any inspections before) are not performed for poor clients. Face it... everyone... even Scott Patterson... had to do his first inspection for someone, and his second, and his third, and his fourth. Everyone. But at NACHI, these are Mock inspections. At ASHI they are for poor consumers.

5. There are many reasons NACHI's exam is open book and almost too many to list. For example... it is not a memory test, an inspector can bring his laptop or code check books on an inspection anyway, it is the practice of major Universities, etc. But I'll confess the real reason it is open book.... to make the NHIE look idiotic. You see the NHIE has a 40% fail rate compared to our 53% fail rate but when you combine those stats with the fact that ours should even be easier because its open book... it makes NACHI's exam recognizably harder. If you can't pass NACHI's exam DESPITE it being open book... you really have no business in this business. Being open book proves our exam is not that easy as many continue to fail it DESPITE having access to their references as they take it. We're not interested in weeding out poor exam takers. We're interested in weeding out poor applicants. There is no better predictor of inspector competency than NACHI's membership requirements http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm

6. I don't know about NAHI as they are scum. They have less than 900 due paying members and are no longer a trade association. They accepted a bribe in return for permitting others to bribe. I can't imagine anyone even being a member of that scum bag group. However I will speak to ASHI as I generally respect ASHI, I certainly respect ASHI members, and was pleased when they held their ground on ethics along with NACHI (while scum NAHI buckled for cash). Civil Justice has it now and with any luck, Civil Justice will win and I will put out the press-release of the century to eveyone warning them about NAHI scum. Anyway, at ASHI's January 2005 Board meeting they said that most inspectors in ASHI are Candidates. This is confirmed many other ways. I may be mistaken but I think you yourself confirmed this on this very message board about a year ago. Anyway, ASHI is mostly Candidates (about 60% according to my sources). This makes ASHI an association of unqualified Candidates. This makes sense since anyone can join ASHI as a Candidate with no qualifications. ASHI is a bottom dweller so to speak. NACHI on the other hand dissuades newbies by front loading all our membership requirements. It also attracts all the veterans with its membership benefits of which most are geared to attract veteran inspectors. You are a smart man... face it. A veteran doesn't need any association after he has his market established. So a veteran will always join the association that offers the best value http://www.nachi.org/benefits.htm for his money as a veteran (if he is lucky to ever become one) likely got there by making sound business decisions. NACHI is a sound business decision. ASHI is a very poor one in terms of value. Argue all you like but no other trade association on earth ever gave more for in return for its membership dues than NACHI. Heck, the internet marketing is worth thousands a year alone to any inspector. The E&O discounts are greatere than the price of membership. I can go on for ever. I'll go as far as saying that I dare anyone reading this to come up with a better place to throw 79cents a day to help their business. In fact, I will offer an enormous prize to anyone who can show me a better value than NACHI, from a shear business decision point of view. Anyway, this dissuasion of newbies, this attraction of veterans (who recognize value quicker) combined with all the continuing education we offer http://www.nachi.org/inspectionexcellence.htm makes our blood line so to speak, the best in this industry.

As for your last comments:

Wow... what happened to the 250 ASHI lies about? Now you say it is only 50? Well its actually only 5 unverified Scott. Let me say it again. 5 unverified. I know! My toilet flusher helper turned in 5 of my inspection reports and ASHI made him a full member. So much for your 250, or even 50, or even 5.

Don't even get me started on the NHIE, which is not psychometrically valid, used as an ASHI membership lead generator, contains many questions outside the scope of a home inspection, is nothing more than a revenue generator, has only 2 versions, and who's pool of questions is sold on eBay for $15.

So lets compare everything NACHI does in terms of http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm and http://www.nachi.org/inspectionexcellence.htm with ASHI who admits in board notes that they are an association of Candidates. Worse, the full members of ASHI only had to scrape up $15 and someone elses 5 inspection reports.

Your ASHI is 60% totally unqualified Candidates running around desperately cutting their prices, ruining our markets, and screwing consumers. The other 40% is made up of CATCH THIS: Inspectors who sent in a mere 5 copies of another inspector's reports (no proctoring by ASHI here!... ASHI takes the $$$) or WORSE...inspector that did a certain number of unqualified inspections as Candidates (see above) for poor, unsuspecting consumers. This is ASHI.

--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

14

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


into our industry!


--ASHI must end their disgusting public policy of having NO application requirements!

--ASHI must end their disgusting policy of encouraging their NO qualifications whatsoever Candidates to work for poor unsuspecting consumers in order to gain full membership!

--ASHI must end their disgusting policy of encouraging their desperate for numbers Candidates to cut their prices and our throats in order to get their inspections in!

--ASHI must end their disgusting policy of basing ASHI logo usage and full membership on the number of unqualified inspections their applicants have done!

STOP NOW. I'm asking nice. If ASHI doesn't stop this I'll quit NACHI and fund a campaign to send an ASHI bumper sticker to every REALTOR in the U.S. They won't put them on their cars but the point will hit home.

"ASHI, your source for cheap, desperate inspectors"

I want all home inspectors to make a nice living, be able to care for their families, and enjoy some of the good things in life. I wish this for all home inspectors regardless of association affiliation. All home inspectors deserve this. But I need to get the home inspection prices up for this to become a real profession. Now come to your senses ASHI, end your anti-home inspector/anti-consumer policies... or prepare for war.

--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

15

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Scott Patterson:


I want to apologize. It's late and I'm very passionate about getting our industy's pricing up. You made a professional post and I didn't reciprocate with one. I'm sorry.

Anyway, if you can come up with some plan to help I'm all ears. With you at ASHI and me at NACHI both working to get our industry's pricing up where it should be (about 2 to 3 times what we're currently charging for a home inspection) I'd appreciate it.

I want every home inspector, ASHI members included, to earn more.

I'll do whatever I have to do.

--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

16

Originally Posted By: rspriggs
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


at our state meeting.


In today's economy, no self-respecting contractor of any sort would even start his truck for that kind of money, esp when one considers that the total time inveated for an inspection is probably around 6 hours.

Might as well work at Mickey D's, get fed, spend no gas, no marketing, no E&O money.

What prostitutes.

--
Exploring Planet NACHI . . . One house at a time.

Russ Spriggs,
Idaho Chapter Pres.
Coeur d'Alene, ID Home Inspectors
Coeur d'Alene Home Inspectors

17

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


policies.

–
Nick Gromicko


Founder


dues=79cents/day.


I much prefer email to private messages.
18

Originally Posted By: rwand
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


icon_idea.gif


Everyone should be raising their prices by $5 per month or everyother month. By the end of the year you would have at least a minimum $30-$60 increase. There is no reason not to. Charge more work less! Start today, don’t delay. Don’t sell yourself short that is the biggest marketing mistake in my opinion.


Raymond Wand
Alton, ON

--
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905

http://www.raymondwand.ca
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (R.H.I.)

19

Originally Posted By: rwand
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


I wish people would get out of the rut they seem to be in with not allowing open book tests. In todays world there is no way you can remember everything. We are inundated daily with new information, we live in an information based society. What is more important in my opinion is to give people the knowledge and the tools to be able to look up and reference material. The building code course in Ontario is an open book exam. Times change, remember when slide rules were only allowed, well look how the personal electronic calculator changed all that, it is the same with the internet and personal computers. If you are not changing with the times and learning new ways to learn you will be relegated to the scrap heap. Internet based learning is here and it works. I see nothing wrong with sitting at home and being able to learn and write tests over the internet.


Change today, don't delay, the information society is here to stay. ![icon_idea.gif](upload://6VKizmOm2U7YYmfXNtFW4XTwFVy.gif)

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON

--
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905

http://www.raymondwand.ca
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (R.H.I.)

20

Originally Posted By: mtimpani
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


One problem is, that a lot of guys do this as a retirement job on the side. That makes it hard for us full time guys to get our prices up. 9 out of 10 times people will go with the lesser price. A lot of retirees mentality is, I don’t care about the money, I’ll go out this afternoon and make $120 for a couple hours work.

–
Thank you, MarkTimpani


www.pridepropertyinspections.com