Originally Posted By: rpasquier This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
OK, don’t know what to do about this, so thought that I would ask you guys.
My mother had a remodel 3 years ago, and now, since I graduated my HI school, she asked me to inspect her house.
So, I am upstairs in her new bathroom, flushing the toilet, turning on the water in the sinks etc, I touched the side of the tank and it was warm.
I was dumbfounded, hot water in a toilet?
So, how am I supposed to write this one up?
Hot water is going to eat up that wax ring in a hurry.
Do I tell her ,get a pro plumber in there to redo her toilet for a grand or so, or do I advise her to replace her toilet ring annually so that she won't spring a leak, or both?
How would you guys write up such a finding?
She is kind of thrilled with it, now she understands why when she turns on her shower after flushing the toilet the Hot water is right there, no waiting...LOL
Originally Posted By: John Bowman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Richard,
Was there any presense of an Anti-Sweat Valve. Anti-Sweat Valves are installed to elimate condensation, prevent dripping of toilet tanks, end moisture on floors, etc. Built-in check valves prevent hot and cold water cross-connection. The Water temperature should be adjustable, hot water inlet can be shut-off during off-season.
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Richard, Does she actually have a tank type water heater or is the hot water provided by a boiler system? There may be cross plumbing from that. I recently found an outside faucet on an inspection supplying hot water. Great for melting snow and ice
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I find them occasionally, usually on new homes.
There is the risk of cracking the toilet tank and bowl with the hot water. What if she took a shower first, THEN flushed the toilet? It would be instant hot water into the tank and bowl. Fortunately, she does the opposite and the toilet draws the cold water out of the hot water line, making the water in the tank just warm.
Typically, when I find this, it indicates that the plumber connected the hot and cold wrong somewhere in that bathroom. They did their stub up, then, on top out, they connected the hot to the cold and vice versa. Now, all the single handle faucets are backwards. Plumber thinks 'Dang, how likely is it that I did that? Hmmm ... easy enough to change, I'll rotate each one.' Doesn't even think about the toilet. Sometimes when you look under the lavatory, you will see the risers crossed. That is how they 'fix' hot and cold reversed for two handle faucets.
Originally Posted By: Guest This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Richard,
It won't eat her wax ring and it won't crack her bowl, but it is inefficient. Have a plumber fix it if she doesn't like it or just leave it alone. Now, if it were a bidet....
Originally Posted By: John Bowman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Richard,
General questions:
1. I noticed that the bathroom was remodeled three years ago. Is this the first time that this problem (if it is a problem) has surfaced.
2. Is the water in the tank, actually warm or hot. You indicated warm. Warm is a classic sign of anti-sweat fixture being installed.
I would recommend you do a follow up inspection on this situation. Things to check for:
1. Shut off the main hot water supply. Flush the toilet. If it fills with cold water only, then this would be a strong indicator that there is a anti-sweat valve present. If it doesn't fill then the toilet is more than likely hooked up to the hot water supply line, especially if you turn the hot water back on and it fills (then, I would recommend to the client that the discrepancy be reviewed by a qualified contractor/plumber).
2. If you can, follow the water supply line to the toilet to determine its source.
3. Is there a anti-sweat valve installed. They are known to go bad. If the toilet is filling with Hot water (make sure you run the hot water in a nearby fixture, i.e. tub or sink first to ensure that the water is good and hot coming up to the bathroom, flush the toilet a couple of times and observe the water temperature coming in, being careful not to burn your hands). If the water entering the tank is very hot, try adjusting the anti-sweat valve. If adjustment is not successful more than likely a new anti-sweat valve is needed. Sometimes a good cleaning of the anti-sweat valve system (i.e. particle build up from solder, hard water, etc. ), may be the only thing required. In this instance you should recommend that a qualified contractor/plumber be consulted.
Doing these things may be beyond the scope of a Home Inspector, especially if the plumbing is within the walls/floors. Anti-sweat or mixing valves are normally in sight. Occassionally the plumber/contractor will put them in a wall with an access panel. However seeing as how the client is your mother....
Please let us know how you made out.
John Bowman
Bowman Contracting - Home Inspections.
Originally Posted By: rpalac This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
That steam’s my but… hmmmmm clears a different hold type of head cold. (just sick)
I've never heard of a temp valve used on a toilet.
I'm interested to hear more about this, and if there are specific manufactured products for the fill valve or is this a independent personal design on information.
Originally Posted By: rpasquier This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I am heading over there this morning to finish up, my mother has a degree in Mareting, so I spent a lot of time yesterday using her brain and getting my bruchure together, so did not finish the inspection. The old Brochure just is not getting the job done.
I'll do some testing and let you know if it is indeed just hot water hooked up to it, or if it is an antisweat valve in her toilet.
Thank you for the information, NACHI HI's are indeed the best!! 
Originally Posted By: dbush This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Richard, don’t take this the wrong way please.
Is is the brochure that is not working, or the presentation? A sucky brochure will do well if presented well. A great brochure will do nothing if presented wrong.
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jim Morrison wrote:
It won't eat her wax ring
Jim, you are correct there.
Quote:
and it won't crack her bowl
But incorrect there.
Quote:
, but it is inefficient.
Absolutely correct there.
There are many sources on the web for this, this is just the first one I pulled up tonight. I used to participate in a plumbing message board and this was discussed there at length.
This:
WARNING: HOT WATER IS DANGEROUS. DISCHARGE THE WATER INTO A FLOOR DRAIN, LAUNDRY TUB OR BATHTUB. HOT WATER WILL KILL YOUR GRASS IF DISCHARGED ONTO THE LAWN. HOT WATER WILL CRACK A TOILET BOWL IF DISCHARGED INTO THE TOILET.
Originally Posted By: Guest This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jerry,
I believe the original question was: How would you report it? I have no doubt that this setup will never cause a problem, but will result in wasted energy. And that's how I would report it.
Find me a documented case of a toilet under normal use which was cracked as a result of being connected to a hot water feed instead of a cold one, and I'll humbly admit defeat and thank you for the education.
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jim,
Yes, the original question was: How would you report it? I completely understand the reason why this could, under the wrong conditions (such as I explained in my other post) could crack the toilet. It will also waste energy, yes, but I'd be more concerned about the cracked toilet, they can cause serious injury when sitting on one when it cracks. That's why I said "There is the risk of cracking the toilet tank and bowl with the hot water.", and that's the way I'd report it.
Quote:
Find me a documented case of a toilet under normal use which was cracked as a result of being connected to a hot water feed instead of a cold one, and I'll humbly admit defeat and thank you for the education.
Find me a documented case of a rusted out oven top seam causing injury because it was dropping iron supplements into the food below.
Documentation for those types of tings is not very likely to exist. Not because they don't happen, but because they are not likely to be documented in news articles and medical journals, etc.
Originally Posted By: Guest This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
OK Jerry,
The question is: How would you write this up? Mine goes: The toilet is being fed hot water instead of cold, which is unusual and wasteful. The tank feed should be connected to a cold water supply pipe by licensed plumber.
Just for kicks, why don't you give us the Pembroke Pines version?
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
You may try draining a few gallons of water off the bottom of the water heater tank. This is done by attaching a drain hose to the valve at the bottom of the tank. Allow it to drain for about five minutes.
WARNING: HOT WATER IS DANGEROUS. DISCHARGE THE WATER INTO A FLOOR DRAIN, LAUNDRY TUB OR BATHTUB. HOT WATER WILL KILL YOUR GRASS IF DISCHARGED ONTO THE LAWN. HOT WATER WILL CRACK A TOILET BOWL IF DISCHARGED INTO THE TOILET.
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Well, I have to admit that when I was remodeling the kitchen the bathroom plumbing above the kitchen was in bad enough shape to warrant replacement.
So the story goes...in a rush to get the toilet hooked back up, so we would at least have a toilet, I hooked it up to the hot water side (accidentally of course). While it certainly did not do any damage to the toilet (no, I am not agreeing with my bud, Jim M), it did not melt the wax ring. It really did not do any damage at all but certainly was a waste of energy since I repositioned the water heater so the kitchen, bathroom and laundry would get almost instantaneous hot water. It worked. One flush of the toilet, next one in got a hot butt.
The temperature on the water heater was set to 140 degrees, the toilet, owner and plumbing are now doing fine!
Besides being a waste of energy, cooked poop is not the best smell in the world. It really does gag you and it is hard to get rid of that smell.
Ok Jim M, back to you! 
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jim Morrison wrote:
OK Jerry,
The question is: How would you write this up? Mine goes: The toilet is being fed hot water instead of cold, which is unusual and wasteful. The tank feed should be connected to a cold water supply pipe by licensed plumber.
Just for kicks, why don't you give us the Pembroke Pines version?
Jimmy
You mean expand on what I already posted above (because that is not all there would be to my report)? "That's why I said "There is the risk of cracking the toilet tank and bowl with the hot water.", and that's the way I'd report it. "
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The toilet supply is hot water instead of cold water. While this may give a 'warm and fuzzy feeling' when it is cooler outside, this can also lead to the toilet tank and / or bowl cracking. A cracked toilet tank can leak or break apart at any time. A cracked bowl can fail at anytime, especially when someone is on it, leading to serious injury. It is also a waste of energy as hot water is being flushed, literally, down the toilet. This may also be an indication of other reversed plumbing in that bathroom or the house. Have a plumbing contractor correct and verify that all other plumbing is properly connected.
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Something to that effect.
Do I think it is a hazard? Yes. Do I think someone can be seriously injured when the bowl splits apart when they are sitting on it? Yes. As I stated above, in a plumbing message board I used to particpate in years ago, one of the participants (who was from 'down under' in Australia) posted a reply that a friend of his sat down onto a cracked toilet bowl, the bowl broke apart, and he sustained serious injuries to his rectum and cut his butt all up, it put him in the hospital. Think your bare bottom side coming down hard on sharp pieces of jagged procelin. Not something I would want to try out. Would you?
