Information concerning "Back Fed" Devices (Circuit

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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BACK-FED DEVICES.


Plug-in-type overcurrent protection devices (circuit breakers) or plug-in type-main lug assemblies that are back-fed and used to terminate field-installed ungrounded (hot) supply conductors shall be secured in place by an additional fastener that requires other than a pull to release the device from the mounting means on the panel.

LINE-LOAD CONNECTIONS

Line and load markings on a circuit breaker (near termination screw) are intended to limit connections thereto as marked.


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Joe


Your posts are informative.

I do not understand the point that you are making.

I get it now, before I posted this. I had to re-read your post.

Got a code reference?

Mike P.


Originally Posted By: jpope
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Quote:
Educate me on this!

Shouldn't the SE wires connect to the lugs on the top and not the side?


- in reference to the panel in this thread http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=4625


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Jeff:


Yes, and because you called attention to the term "Back-feeding", I wanted to stay out of the thread that was posted and identified here because I could see where there were some remarks made that would have not been easy to avoid.

Anyway, Mike see Article 384 or 408 and the first paragraph in my post will be found. The reason for the additional supporting means is because the cover was removed once from a larger sized panelboard, say 200 amps, and the "Back-Fed" CB popped out and the hot stabs electrocuted someone.

As far as "Line and Load" goes look at a two pole circuit breaker and the word Load may appear or Line, I am not exactly sure but something along those lines.

Here is information that all HI's should save and study to be more aware of the requirements related to the way in which electrical equipment is supposed to be used. I once posted a link to the UL Directory somewhere on this board, and that is were this information can be found or you can go to www.ul.com and search:

Quote:
[Circuit Breakers] Circuit Breakers, Molded-case and Circuit Breaker Enclosures


Guide Information

USE
This category covers circuit breakers and circuit breaker enclosures designed to provide service-entrance, feeder or branch circuit protection in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, "National Electrical Code" (NEC).

These circuit breakers are intended for use with Listed enclosures, or as part of other Listed equipment, or without enclosures where acceptable.

Investigation of a Listed "replacement circuit breaker" involves only the circuit breaker and associated parts; the end application or any series combination application has not been investigated.

Some circuit breakers are not provided with a means to prevent their installation in Class CTL assemblies. These circuit breakers are for use in old style, non-Class CTL equipment and are marked "For Replacement Use Only, Not CTL Assemblies."

Circuit breakers marked "SWD" and rated 347 V or less are suitable for switching fluorescent lighting loads on a regular basis at their rated voltage.

Circuit breakers marked "HID" have been investigated for switching high-intensity discharge lighting loads on a regular basis at their rated voltage.

Some circuit breakers include a pole intended to disconnect the grounded circuit conductor of a branch circuit. All poles of these circuit breakers open simultaneously.

Single-pole circuit breakers rated 120 V ac are suitable for use on circuits rated 120 V to ground.

Single-pole or multi-pole independent trip circuit breakers, with or without handle ties, rated 120/240 V ac, are suitable for use in a single-phase, multi-wire circuit on line-to-neutral connected loads.

Single-pole or multi-pole independent trip circuit breakers, with handle ties, rated 120/240 V ac, are suitable for use on multi-wire circuits with line-to-line or line-to-ground connected loads.

2-pole independent trip breakers and single-pole breakers with handle ties, rated 120/240 V ac, are suitable for use in line-to-line single-phase circuits or line-to-line lighting and appliance branch circuits connected to 3-phase, 4-wire systems, provided the systems have a grounded neutral and the voltage to ground does not exceed 120 V.

2-pole independent trip breakers and single-pole breakers with handle ties, rated 125/250 V dc, are suitable for use in line-to-line connected 3-wire dc circuits supplied from a system with a grounded neutral where the voltage to ground does not exceed 125 V.

2-pole independent trip breakers and single-pole breakers with handle ties, rated 125/250 V (both ac and dc), are suitable for use in accordance with either of the above two paragraphs, as applicable.

Some independent trip circuit breakers are marked "independent trip,""no common trip" or equivalent wording.

3-pole circuit breakers having provision for two poles to be connected to a bus structure and a third isolated pole (commonly referred to as delta breakers) are marked "For Replacement Use Only."

3-pole circuit breakers are suitable for use only on 3-phase systems unless marked to indicate otherwise.

Multi-pole common trip circuit breakers rated 120/240 V ac are suitable for use in a single-phase multi-wire circuit, with or without the neutral connected to the load, where the voltage to ground does not exceed 120 V.

Multi-pole common trip circuit breakers rated 125/250 V or 125/250 V dc are suitable for use in a single-phase and a dc multi-wire circuit, with or without the neutral connected to the load, where the voltage to ground does not exceed 125 V.

Circuit breakers, the performance of which may be affected by a 40?C ambient temperature within the enclosure, and that have been investigated for this application, are marked "40 C."

Unless otherwise marked, circuit breakers should not be loaded to exceed 80 percent of their current rating, where in normal operation the load will continue for three hours or more.

Circuit breakers rated 50 A or less and 125/250 V or less are investigated for use with tungsten-filament lamp loads.

Circuit breaker enclosures marked for service equipment use may also be used to provide the main control and means of cutoff for a separately derived system or a second building.

Circuit breaker enclosures identified with an enclosure type designation are intended for use as indicated in Electrical Equipment for Use in Ordinary Locations (AALZ).

A current-limiting circuit breaker is one that does not employ a fusible element and that when operating within its current-limiting range, limits the let-through I2t to a value less than the I2t of a 1/2 cycle wave of the symmetrical prospective current.

PRODUCT TYPES
Circuit breakers and circuit breaker enclosures are indicated by the label designations as follows:

Circuit Breaker ? without enclosure, and with noninterchangeable trip units.

CTL Circuit Breaker ? has physical size, configuration or other means which, in conjunction with the physical means provided in a Class CTL assembly, is designed to prevent the installation of more circuit breaker poles than the number for which the assembly is designed and rated.

Circuit Breaker Frame ? frame only of circuit breaker with provision for interchangeable trip units. A labeled circuit breaker frame is Listed for use only with a labeled circuit breaker trip unit.

Circuit Breaker Trip Unit ? trip unit only of circuit breaker having provision for interchangeable trip units.

Circuit Breaker Enclosure ? enclosure only for individual 1-, 2- or 3-pole circuit breaker or for two single-pole breakers not interconnected.

Replacement Circuit Breaker ? a present design with external modifications to permit its mounting in place of obsolete designs of the same manufacturer in previously Listed applications, such as panelboards, switchboards and the like, which are still in service.

INSTALLATION
Some circuit breakers include a ground-fault trip element. These ground-fault trip elements have been investigated in accordance with UL 1053, "Ground-Fault Sensing and Relaying Equipment," and are suitable for providing ground-fault protection of equipment in accordance with Sections 215.10, 230.95 or 240.13 of the NEC.

Circuit breakers with ground-fault elements intended for use in accordance with NEC Articles 426 or 427 are covered under Circuit Breakers with Equipment Ground Fault Protection (DIYA).

Circuit breakers are tested under overload conditions at six times the rating to cover motor circuit applications and are suitable for use as motor circuit disconnects per Section 430.109 of the NEC.

Listed circuit breakers may be mounted in any position unless marked to indicate otherwise. If, however, the circuit breaker is mounted so that the handle is operated vertically rather than rotationally or horizontally, the up position of the handle should be in the "on" position.

Line and load markings on a circuit breaker are intended to limit connections thereto as marked.

RATINGS
Listed circuit breakers are rated 600 V or less. A circuit breaker is marked AC or DC or both AC and DC. A symbol (~), where used, represents AC. The frequency is included if other than 60 Hz.

Circuit breakers that have an interrupting rating higher than 5000 A are marked to indicate the higher rating(s).

An interrupting rating on a circuit breaker included in a piece of equipment does not automatically qualify the equipment in which the circuit breaker is installed for use on circuits with higher available currents than the rating of the equipment itself.

Circuit breaker enclosures that have a short-circuit current rating are marked accordingly.

PRODUCT MARKINGS
A circuit breaker that includes an accessory device, whether attached to the circuit breaker by the manufacturer of the circuit breaker, or by others, is marked to indicate the presence of that accessory.

Where the accessory is a shunt trip device that is suitable for operation with ground-fault sensing and relaying equipment, such suitability is indicated in the marking of the circuit breaker.

2-pole circuit breakers suitable for controlling 3-phase, corner-grounded delta circuits are marked to indicate their suitability.

Circuit breaker enclosures that are suitable for use as service equipment are marked accordingly.

Some circuit breakers are intended to be used with uninterruptible power supplies (UPS) with two or three poles connected in series. These circuit breakers are marked with both the maximum and nominal DC voltage of the system where use is intended, a wiring diagram showing the proper connections of the poles in series, and a statement that these DC ratings are applicable only with UPS.

Circuit breakers investigated for use with heating, air conditioning and refrigeration equipment comprising multi-motor or combination loads are marked "HACR TYPE," in conjunction with the Listing Mark. Such circuit breakers are suitable for use with heating, air conditioning and refrigerating equipment marked for use with HACR type circuit breakers. Use of these circuit breakers with heating, air conditioning and refrigerating equipment is limited to installations where the equipment is marked as suitable for use with any properly sized circuit breaker, or is marked for use with a HACR type circuit breaker, or is not limited by any marking as to the type of branch circuit, short-circuit and ground-fault protective device.

Current-limiting circuit breakers are marked "current limiting" and are marked either to indicate the let-through characteristics or to indicate where such information may be obtained.

Circuit breakers investigated for application aboard noncombatant and auxiliary naval ships are marked "Naval." The Marine Listing Mark identifies circuit breakers investigated for use in a marine environment. For additional information on circuit breakers suitable for naval and marine use, see Circuit Breakers, Molded-case and Circuit Breaker Enclosures, Marine (DKTY).

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
For additional information, see Circuit Breakers (DHJR) and Electrical Equipment for Use in Ordinary Locations (AALZ).

REQUIREMENTS
The basic standard used to investigate products in this category is UL 489, "Molded-Case Circuit Breakers, Molded-Case Switches and Circuit Breaker Enclosures."

UL MARK
The Listing Mark of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. on the product is the only method provided by UL to identify products manufactured under its Listing and Follow-Up Service. The Listing Mark for these products includes the UL symbol (as illustrated in the Introduction of this Directory) together with the word "LISTED," a control number, and one of the following product names, as appropriate: "Circuit Breaker,""CTL Circuit Breaker,""Circuit Breaker Frame,""Circuit Breaker Trip Unit,""Circuit Breaker Enclosure" or "Replacement Circuit Breaker." The words "Circuit Breaker" may be abbreviated "C.B." in all of the product names permitted above (e.g., "C.B. Enclosure").

The Marine Listing Mark identifies circuit breakers investigated for use in a marine environment.



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--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: jpope
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Joe,


Is it possible to determine that a panel is in fact "back-fed" before we remove the cover?


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Jeff:


If the equipment includes a main circuit breaker it will usually be in the upper middle on top, or maybe even at the bottom with the word "MAIN" on the CB handle.

In your case, that main was not in that panel, and may have been somewhere else ahead of the supply you showed that was back-feeding the breaker, and the lugs were there as well.

I believe that someone used that method and that CB to serve as the main.

Do you know if there was a main in the supply from the load side of the meter? I would simply make it clear that the system is not correct and that further evaluation by an electrician is recommended.

Can we find out if that breaker has any marking as to line or load near the termination?

![icon_question.gif](upload://t2zemjDOQRADd4xSC3xOot86t0m.gif)


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: jpope
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Quote:
Can we find out if that breaker has any marking as to line or load near the termination?

![eusa_think.gif](upload://lNFeGuTetUAtwNVgUSOuUzgrGGK.gif) Hmm. You lost me here?


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Does the panel cover have a diagram showing the wiring layout and bus arrangement?





What size are the breakers?


The CB that I am aware of has the word "Load" somewhere near the termination screws, and if it was designed to be back-fed the word Line would be there. The breaker you have, I will lay odds is not designed for that present use,

I could be wrong, but I am almost sure. The wires look like they are sleeved with "Loom" flexible tubing used for K&T?


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Mike: 408.16(F)



Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I have not seen a breaker marked line and / or load in a long time. If marked we must use as instructed, however most breakers can be used either way.


I doubt you will find line marked breakers until you get into breakers with on board electronics, AFCI, GFCI, GFP etc.

Many panels come with a back fed main in the position that would normally be branch circuits 1 and 3.


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



One key item, though, is that the breaker in question is not made to be secured in place, and thus is not allowed to be back fed.


All other things being equal, of course. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Thanx


Mike P.


Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Jerry two thoughts.


1)When did the code rule go in that requires back fed devices to be secured?

2)Many breakers do not need to be made not "made to be secured in place" a common if somewhat cheese method is a clip that secures the breaker.


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Bob,


And those clips are made for those breakers, there is no way to make a clip for that breaker.

"One key item, though, is that the breaker in question ... "

As far as to when a back fed breaker was required to be secured in place, I'll have to see if that in addressed in the old codes I have, otherwise Joe T. might know.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



jpeck wrote:
Bob,

And those clips are made for those breakers, there is no way to make a clip for that breaker.


Jerry I have a hard time understanding that. ![icon_confused.gif](upload://qv5zppiN69qCk2Y6JzaFYhrff8S.gif)

Of coarse they could make a clip to hold that breaker.

But was it required at the time of manufacture?

Not that I have worked on these panels but from what I have read there are more serious concerns with these then a back fed device.

Also I have read that getting one of these breakers out when you try is nearly imposable unlike the FPE self ejecting breakers.


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Bob Badger wrote:
Of coarse they could make a clip to hold that breaker. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)


"They" could, but if the manufacturer did not, then it would not be approved, would it?

Quote:
Not that I have worked on these panels but from what I have read there are more serious concerns with these then a back fed device.


Absolutely agree with you there.

Quote:
Also I have read that getting one of these breakers out when you try is nearly imposable unlike the FPE self ejecting breakers.


Yep, the FPE are self-rejecting (er ... self-ejecting ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif) ) breakers, and the Zinsco are self-welding (to the bus bar) breakers.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida