Is all cloth wiring a concern?

…or just some cloth wiring?

And how about this 1972 wiring?

The sheathing (plastic) on the wires is actually correct and appropriate. The cloth it appears is just on the surround which encloses the conductors. Unlike older knob and tube wiring where the actual copper conductors are in an asphalt based insulating material subject to cracking and leaving only the cloth as an insulating material… Looks fine.

There is actual tin-clad copper, cloth covered wiring in the OP’s photo…just not the NM cable, which has braided sheathing. Looks like the insulation and cloth has not deteriorated yet, but the insurance companies want to know about it anyway.

That is cloth wiring and should be reported on the Citizens 4-point inspection. Documenting this correctly could make getting insurance a difficult process. I have been informed that I’m the only inspector in my area documenting cloth wiring. I have spoken to other local inspectors who refuse to document cloth wiring as it could kill the deal. It will be interesting when I roll in two years later, when the house is for sale and inform the owners that they have cloth wiring that the inspector failed to inform them about 2 years prior.

Hey Brad, do you report the NM cable with braided sheathing as “cloth covered wiring” on the 4-point? My understanding was that only the cloth covered TCCW was an issue, not the cloth covered NMC

No I don’t, and never have. Cloth sheathing is not what they are concerned with. Maybe that wasn’t clear.

There are TCCW conductors at the bottom of the OP’s photo.

I’m not seeing any tinned copper in that picture and can’t imagine how anybody could have found any to install in a 72 build…

This install looks older than 1972. The braided sheathing NM wiring, I have only seen in the 50’s and 60’s. The cloth wiring is multi-strand for larger appliance circuits. It looks fine in the photo, but I wasn’t there to see the termination point. I am just showing the difference.

Neither do I. Black film on a copper ground wire, that’s it.

Cloth covered conductors are normally only found inside armored cable (BX), or conduit, can’t ever remember seeing cloth covered conductors inside of MN cable, don’t believe it ever existed.

See this post on cloth wiring.

http://flstatewideinsurance.com/is-cloth-wiring-insurable-for-homeowners-insurance/

Phil Wise

That’s not problematic cloth wiring in that blog, it’s NM cable with thermoplastic insulated conductors. A lot of inspectors make that mistake including that past employee of FL Statewide.

Working in my garage last week and uncovered this type of wiring.
Common for 60’s but not for the 70’s.

Built my house in 72 and all wiring was NM PVC wiring.

Wiring in the picture here is dated at 1967.

I wish I would have been around to fire the electrician also.

This is incorrect also.

That’s a terrible and misleading article, especially from an insurance company. I’m glad we don’t have to deal with 4 points up here.

Yeah, I loved the “wrapped with Romex” part too.:mrgreen:

Hah!! Yes, fired he should have been

“If you have a 4 point inspection and it comes back with cloth wiring. You will need an electrician to inspect the wiring and determine if it is necessary to replace. Most electricians will not see the need to replace the wiring as long as the wiring is covered in romex”. Someone should tell those idiots that Romex is a brand name. You cannot cover anything in it. Its like asking for Kleenex. Kleenex is nothing more than a brand name for a tissue

Guys…The problem is that insurance companies will not accept Sheathing around the wire. Even though we get electrician letters stating that the wiring is not dangerous and doesnt impose a threat, insurance companies will not accept it. Real cloth wiring does not have Romex around the wiring. So the inspector is correct, it is not cloth wiring, the problem is Citizens is the only company that will write that insurance with a letter.

Well, apparently the message is not getting through. IMO agents and underwriters, as well as some inspectors need some good training in electrical systems and wiring. You are still referencing “Romex around the wiring”. This shows the ignorance that is still rampant in this industry.

If that statement is true…we are in real trouble, that pretty much covers every home built in the country for the last 75 years or so.