Cloth Covered Wire

Do you report the presence of cloth covered wire that is not knob and tube?




nope, if it looks ok.

I do note if its copper, copper stranded, or aluminum as a matter of description. I also not metal shielded or non-metal shielded.

Yes cloth covered wire is old and it becomes brittle.
You take off a junction box and they are always stuffed in ,falling apart ,and ready to short then start a fire or shock you.
Should be replaced and that costs money.
I report anything affecting safety or money .
This effects both and thus my clients evaluation of the property.

Yes and cloth covered wire usually has no ground.

Yes. Just make sure it is actual cloth covered wiring. What you have there is tin coated copper with rubber insulation and a cloth covering. If doing a 4pt, the carriers consider this the same as K&T.

For a 4-point, yes.
Depending on the condition, on a home inspection,yes or no…with a note about possibly not being able to obtainin insurance…

Yes - this question was meant to relate to 4-Point inspections. The current Citizens 4-Point form came out in 2012 that added this to the knob and tube question. The previous Citizens Electrical Inspection Report did not ask specifically, only if there was active knob and tube wiring.

I know several inspectors who are not calling this out on 4-Point inspections and we wondering what the consensus was in this regard.


It either is or it isn’t. IMO

Leaving home with several cloth branches and client is 134 Union that says yes you need to eliminate it so always report it.

If you consider it unsafe you need to call it out.

So John, in your 4-Poin training - Do you recommend that you only call it out if you consider it unsafe?

Is that the same lesson for Knob and Tube wiring, or do you have a different approach to cloth wiring?

Again… It is old, it gets brittle. Yes replacement unless you have x Ray vision.

Bob, we are talking about a 4-point inspection, not a home inspection…I think…:wink:

Depending on the form you use, and I use the Citizens form, it has a check box and I mark that.
If I see hazardous conditions, I will note them.

On MY form I report Active Knob and tube, unsafe conditions and condition of the electrical system .

I also have an area for comments. If the wire is degraded than it is unsafe.

Ooops keep forgetting you guys have a special place.

Hmm mmm…

So I imagine that at the conference you will advise that people can decide how they want to handle the cloth wire issue - Build your form to not mention it, or to mention it as they see fit. (Obviously if they use the Citizens form then they would have to address it)…

I simply can’t understand why they would report a condition differently depending on who receives the report. Isn’t an electrical issue still an issue for all parties concerned? This reeks akin of writing soft reports for realtors!

It has nothing to do with Realtors.

These are insurance inspections and in several instances, the client is the current homeowner.

None of us overlook any safety concerns, however, there are forms and on those forms, there are places for certain things. It will then be up to the insurance company to determine what happens next.

Citizens 4 point form

I will give you an example.

On a four-point inspection, one of the questions is, what type of wiring is present. There are several boxes, one for “cloth wiring”. That box would get checked. If there were any visible deficiencies, those would be mentioned in the comment section, if not, nothing would be mentioned.
If the insurance company accepts the form, fine.

On a home inspection, the type of wiring would be noted. If any deficiencies were observed, recommendations would be made as to what needs to be done to correct those deficiencies.
If no deficiencies were observed, then nothing would be noted except for “Insurance may not be obtainable due to the presence of cloth covered Romex. This should be determined prior to purchase”.

Both say the same thing, but in different ways.

Because you are not from Florida, and you simply can not comprehend the importance.

That’s sure not what your previous post indicates…