Sub panel fed by service directly above the sub with 60 amp breaker. It is a 4 wire feed but the only wires leaving the sub are the hots. I could not open the service panel due to a wood rack screwed over the top screws on the dead front of the service. Could this be considered an extension of the service since the ground and neutral feed are bonded in the sub and all the sub circuits neutrals and grounds come off of the bus bars in the service above? Could there be any scenario inside the service panel that could make this an acceptable installation?
The 12 gauge wire coming in the bottom is a 20 amp 240 circuit with no handle tie and the white wire not marked as ungrounded
3 Likes
All the circuit conductors should originate in the same panel.
1 Like
No it is not an extension of the service. As Jim atated the neutral associated with each circuit is required to be brought down through the nipple and connect in the panel. The panel also needs an EGC bus.
5 Likes
Thanks Robert and Jim
Excuse my ignorance but is this sub panel bonded?
The metal cabinet is not bonded because the nipple is PVC and there is no screw in the neutral/EGC bar. The feeder EGC is connected to the neutral so the neutral current is returning on the EGC as well.
1 Like
My mistake.
@rmeier2 Is it normal for there not to be any neutrals or pigtails coming out of the circuit breakers in this panel?
I would say it’s normal when Harry Homeowner, a handyman, or some other unqualified individual did the installation. There are several things wrong here.
The neutrals are required to be carried through the same raceway as the ungrounded conductors {300.3(B)}.
The required separate EGC bus is missing.
The panel enclosure is not grounded.
The EGC is in parallel withe the neutral and is carrying some of the neutral current.
The neutral has not been identified with a white or gray marking. There could be other stuff as well.
300.3(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit.
All conductors of the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with 300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4).
3 Likes
I would only expect to see neutrals or pigtails coming out of AFCI or GFCI breakers, which the ones in the OP’s picture do not appear to be.
1 Like
The only neutral conductor that I see in the panel enters from the conduit at the top where other ungrounded conductors are carried. Where is a neutral that’s not being carried through the same raceway as the ungrounded conductors?
The neutral for each of those 120 volt branch circuits is not present in the sub-panel. Since this is fed from the panel above it they’re likely terminated in the other panel as mentioned in the OP (see below).
One thought is that these are all 240 volt circuits and they used only single pole circuit breakers so then there are no neutrals but since there are 11 single pole circuit breakers at least one circuit would require a neutral. (5-2 pole + 1-1pole=11)
2 Likes