Is this acceptable?

Originally Posted By: hgordon
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This is the top portion of a Distribution Panel located in a garage.


Note that they used "pointy" scews...is that OK?

![](upload://kBbBHKZYz8W3Opr8vYc62kVXfyg.jpeg)


Originally Posted By: rmoore
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Harvey…


Aren't those the panel mounting screws? I mean the panel to a board or studs. Not sure what would be wrong there. Are there conductors behind the panel in contact with the screws?


--
Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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They look like screws holding the panelboard into the enclosure. If they were there when the load center was listed it is OK.


Originally Posted By: hgordon
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No I am not sure what this area is called. It is the plate that the Breaker Busbar is attached to.


The screws are normally machine screws...these just caught my attention beacuse they also used them to secure the panel cover.


Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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The only place sheet metal screws are specifically prohibited is for grounding connections. (there is an proposal in the 2005 ROP to modify this language allowing some types of self tapping screws)


If this is a lower priced load center it may be put together with sheet metal screws.


This gets back to the original listing. Does this look like an owner alteration or was it made this way?


BTW the "panelboard" is the guts of the load center that holds the breakers and busbars. It is installed in the enclosure AKA cutout box or cabinet. It is a pedantic point but understanding the language makes it easier to navigate some of the articles of the code which refer to what folks call panels.


Originally Posted By: dbozek
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Isnt that getting a bit “too in depth” for the scope of a HI. Seeing these screws are inside of the panel and not holding the panel cover on…who cares if they are pointy and how can ya tell they are pointy from lookin at the front of them? Let us assume they are pointy though…would ya write that up…and why??? Hope you get my “pointy” here. icon_lol.gif



You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Harvey:


Do I see damaged insulation? ![icon_question.gif](upload://t2zemjDOQRADd4xSC3xOot86t0m.gif) ![icon_question.gif](upload://t2zemjDOQRADd4xSC3xOot86t0m.gif)

If the indentation's I see on the outer jackets of the insulation was because of the conductor's being positioned into the lugs, using a pair of channelocks -- to me that represents a possible safety hazard!

I would not accept the damaged insulation!

Please send me a full resolution picture, or verify this question, and if the insulation is damaged be sure to mention it in your report.




--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Joe


Good eye.

While I might not fail this, it shows me that there might be other problems.


Is that a white stripe on the right leg?

Mike P.


Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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jtedesco wrote:
Harvey:

Do I see damaged insulation? ![icon_question.gif](upload://t2zemjDOQRADd4xSC3xOot86t0m.gif) ![icon_question.gif](upload://t2zemjDOQRADd4xSC3xOot86t0m.gif)

If the indentation's I see on the outer jackets of the insulation was because of the conductor's being positioned into the lugs, using a pair of channelocks -- to me that represents a possible safety hazard!

I would not accept the damaged insulation!


OK so I get out my razor knife and remove the insulation back past the channel lock marks and it passes.


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson
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Bob Badger wrote:

OK so I get out my razor knife and remove the insulation back past the channel lock marks and it passes. ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif)

LMAO


--
Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City

Originally Posted By: dbozek
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Naw Bob…better yet you wrap the left conductor with some black tape and the right one with some red tape…to cover the channel lock marks…now it passes!! icon_eek.gif



You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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dbozek wrote:
Naw Bob.....better yet you wrap the left conductor with some black tape and the right one with some red tape.....to cover the channel lock marks.....now it passes!! ![icon_eek.gif](upload://yuxgmvDDEGIQPAyP9sRnK0D0CCY.gif)


That is better.


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Does that mean that we now should be unwrapping that phase tape to look under it? icon_lol.gif



Jerry Peck


South Florida

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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Yes, icon_lol.gif you mean you have not been? icon_lol.gif



![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: Guest
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I think it far more likely that the marks were made using Klein brand lineman’s plier’s.


Joe, can you tell from the mark that a Channelock brand plier made that mark or did you mean a slip joint plier made the mark. I’m calling CSI.


Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Chad Fabry wrote:
I think it far more likely that the marks were made using Klein brand lineman's plier's.
Joe, can you tell from the mark that a Channelock brand plier made that mark or did you mean a slip joint plier made the mark. I'm calling CSI.


You'd be hard pressed to get a pair of Kliens lineman pliers in there. Those marks are on the front of the insulation, meaning the corresponding mark in on the back, which would mean that the Kliens would have to be jammed up next to the back of the enclosure, and there may not even be room then, either for the rear jaw or the length of the handle.

Now Channelock brand (grooved joint pliers), yeah, because you would be holding the pliers out in front of the panel, not back in the panel.

Now, we just need to match up the jaw pattern, which does look like it was made by Klien lineman's pliers, not Channelocks.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Chad:


I will call them "water pump pliers" instead, and call in the "TAZ" for further investigation!

What say Taz?

![icon_razz.gif](upload://rytL63tLPMQHkufGmMVcuHnsuWJ.gif)


--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm

Originally Posted By: Guest
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Jerry,


I'm thinking the so called electrician that used the pliers stripped the wire out side the panel and created said impression at that time.


Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Chad,


Why hold the wire with pliers when its outside the box, hold it with one hand while stripping with the other.

However, this could have been cut off 'just a little too short', and, when they stripped it, some of it went back into the conduit, so they grabbed it with their Kleins, pulling it back out. That would leave marks like that in those locations.

I still like the black and red phase tape idea to hide this. Hmmmmm ... why is there black phase tape on a black wire? Guess the electrician just was not thinking and just taped everything. Now, I gotta think again. What is under that black tape on that black wire? Why tape it the same color? Hmmmmmm ... ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: dbozek
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This is an interesting twist…HI’s becoming forensic scientists icon_eek.gif



You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln