Hello all,
Did a mock inspection today on an older home. “temporary” Jack posts on double 2x4 blocks another directly on the basement slab and another on a brick. In other words no poured concrete footing for them to be resting on. In that case a permanent steel post (Lally column) would be better to use if a footing were to be poured. You see these so called temporary jack posts a lot in basements in older homes here. Temporary becomes permanent it seems.
Calling out temporary jack posts directly on the slab or on blocks without footings in the report and recommending a structural engineer further evaluate?
Working on my reporting narrative.
Thank you.
Pictures would help A LOT. Some steel posts are temporary and some are rated to be permanent.
Footings under a slab? Yeah, that’s always the million dollar question. My contract specifically states I can’t identify the presence of sub-grade footings. This is one of those examples of where we are there to evaluate performance. Is the post (or metal column, etc.) breaking into the slab? If not, it’s performing as intended and I generally move on and don’t cite a defect.
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Personally, I will only call them out if they’re being used as part of the primary support system, such as under a beam. In many older homes the posts were wood that were/are subject to moisture and or WDI damage and were subsequently replaced with “temporary” posts.
On the other hand, many times they are installed to add extra support if there is excessive bounce in the floor in an area, or if someone is planning on installing something heavy on the floor above that area.
It’s your call if you want to recommend an SE for further evaluation, but I would be recommending a qualified Contractor to make corrections as needed only if they were being used as part of the primary support system. But it’s important that you stay within your comfort zone when writing inspection reports.
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Thanks Matt.
Holding up in part, a beam next to the basement stairwell opening which is up against the foundation wall.
Thanks Kevin, it is in part holding the beam next to the stairwell opening. This being a mock inspection and knowing the person, I’m going to go back and take photos of each jack post and the beams. I know 2 jack posts holding the center floor beam are on foundations and 2 have been seemingly added for extra support that aren’t. There isn’t any visible cracking of the slab or supports under the posts at this time. Apart from the attached photo of the post on 2x4’s the slab has some cracks around it.
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Be sure to get some “overview” photos of the full area these posts are situated in, the full area supported by these posts. Close up pics are helpful, but mean little by themselves in the scheme of things.
Remember, we’re not there in person, so you need to show us what we can’t see.
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Thanks Jeffrey, this being a mock inspection I’m going back to take wider photos of the beam for context. I find these posts to be frustrating because you see them here a lot and they’re usually not supported, in my opinion properly. If it were supported on a bigger concrete pad I would be better with it as opposed to 2x4’s that are susceptible to moisture etc… I honestly don’t know why they even bother to do it like that.
Here are a few things to think about before calling out these posts as a problem serious enough to suggest calling a structural engineer.
- there may be a footing under the concrete floor.
- depending on the age of the house the temporary post may not have been a code violation when the house was built.
- the temporary posts have a load capacity and may not be overloaded.
Unless the beam was sagging, the column bowing or leaning, or serious floor cracks under the post, suggesting a structural engineer could get you in legal trouble. At a minimum you might have to reimburse for the engineering fee or worse go to court for the loss of the home sale. The homeowner’s attorney will ask one question, are you a structural engineer? If not you could be in serious legal trouble.
To verify a footing under the slab a contractor will use a hammer drill to drill through the slab. If you punch through around the typical 4” slab thickness then no footing. Typically footings are about 8”,so drilling 8” or more there is a good chance the footing is adequate.
Did you get those additional photos yet?
How about an update?
Maybe he is still “going back” for wider photos. Please stop being impatient!
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I’ll throw in my opinion: I’ll sometimes call out adjustable posts and sometimes not. Like you say, a lot of older houses have them to reinforce older floor framing systems. If it looks like there is significant weight on them, I’ll call it. I look for failure. I have seen them slightly buckled at the junction of the two post sleeves, but never distortion or failure of the pipe. In addition, look at the condition of the pins and the pin holes. Failure can appear there too. Same with the steel bearing plate at the wood beam bearing location at the top of the post. Depressions into the plate are a sign of overloading.
If the span is small, I won’t call them out nor will I call out the footing. Other times I do, as a minor concern, simply so the buyer knows I saw it. I often post my disclaimer that I cannot determine if a footing is present or missing. The important issue to me is whether it’s functioning or whether there is potential or visible failure. Your job is to report visible issues of concern and function.
I never call this for evaluation by a structural engineer. If a footing is required, it can always be created above the slab as a pier or even with ground contact treated 2 x 12’s. If it’s an important issue that needs to be fixed, I’ll categorize it as major, so it gets prioritized, including the statement, “Contact a licensed building contractor for further evaluation and repair.”
Edit: Ah, now I see “4 months later…”