Just a quick check to see if anyone has incorporated useful life in their reports yet. If so, any ideas?
Yes, I have incorporated the Life Expectancies into my NACHI 4 Point. I use the 1 page condensed NACHI 4pt John created. I added a cover page and a third deficiency page.
On the cover page, I have a section for the Life expectancies that Federated wants.
Email me if you need a copy of the Federated 4Point.
I do it on all of my reports.I think we would be remiss is we just reported that that 17 year old roof was leak free, knowing that it will have to be replaced within the next 0-3 years based on an average life. The client does not know what we know. If an item would need to be replaced in a year to two years, I think they should know about it. And yes, i understand that some things may last longer than an average, but I think our client needs to know so he can make a decision. It basically is no different that buying a used car, except the repairs can be a lot more expensive.
It may be safer to just reference or include InterNACHI’s Estimated Life Expectancy Chart rather than give your own opinion of how long something is expected to last.
Would never put this in my report. 30 year shingles last about 12 years here. Air Conditioning systems last at the most 10 years and about 7 years near the water. So many differences between where I live and that chart. I think it would mislead people drastically and give people a false sense of security.
I send it with every inspection as a refernce . Nothing written should be used as the gospel . why are people so scared of lawyers anyway . we do not need terroists . just lawyers. BTW i bet there are more law suits about they didnt tell me that than one well he gave me all this information.
If Climates cause premature failures just add that.
Something about those 25 & 30 year warranty shingles!!! Our climate is very temperate compared to Florida with high summers temps of about 90-93F for a few days of the year and a July-Aug mean of ~75F. I tell my customers if they get a trouble free 15 year service life out of their shingles nowadays…have a party!!
Do you suppose they don’t make shingles like they used to? I used to see light cloured (Frost white, light grey), 10 year warranty, 3-in-1 tab shingles lasting 25+ years in some instances. My own black shingles are 23 years old and will be replaced in the next year or so…never have had a leak; a few tabs blew off 7 years ago in a hurricane
Think about this…11 years ago, oil was $9.50-$10.00/bbl…just 2 weeks ago, it was $110+/bbl- an **1100% increase!!! ** The incentive to cut/change asphalt and other shingle constituents is VERY strong! I’m regularly seeing 3-5 year old shingles with beginning curling!!
DR. Bill Rose of the U. of Illinois has been researching roofing, attic insulation/airsealing, attic venting for many years now…In 1992, he wrote a short piece in the “Q&A” section of JLC commenting on shingle manufacturers using anything they could to weasel out of warranties when they should be improving shingle quality, not blaming everyone and everything else for their woes!!
I thought the shingles were warrantied to be free of manufacture defects for 20~30 years. This does not mean they will last that long. God and weather are not considered a manufacture defect. Maybe I got it confused, but that is they way I understood it.
The purpose of the chart isn’t to accurately predict life expectancy, because that is impossible. The purpose is to relieve you of having to do the impossible and instead provide you a third party reference to point your client to… and to blame.
If on an inspection, you think something is not going to last as long as the chart says, tell your client so:
“Your ______ is __-years old. I’ve included InterNACHI’s Estimated Life Expectancey Chart which predicts your ______ will last another __ years. However because of _______________, you should not expect your _____ to last that long.”
But, if on an inspection, you think something might last longer than the chart says… shut up about it, IMHO. Stay with the most conservative number.
In other words, the point of the chart is to transfer your client’s reliance away from you.
Transferring your client’s reliance to InterNACHI’s Estimated Life Expectancy Chart is smart because consumers seriously think you can do the impossible (predict life expectancy to the day). See cartoon:
Another reason to provide your client with a copy of InterNACHI’s Estimated Life Expectancy Chart instead of offering to predict life expectancy yourself is that once you’ve predicted life expectancy, you’ve veered outside the Standards of Practice of an inspection.
See www.nachi.org/sop.htm 2. 2.1 II. B and 2. 2.6. II. B and 3. 3.1 VIII.
For commercial inspections see www.nachi.org/comsop.htm 6. 6.5 II and 6. 6.5.3. II. U. and 6. 6.5.7 II. C. and 8. 8.1 VII. and 8. 8.2. C.
With that logic, the manufacturers’ will hire you as a rep in a split second. Premature failure of a shingle expected to last defect free for 20-30 years is considered a defect in my books! Remember I said that 10 year warranty shingles used to last 20+ years up here…what’s changed?
Look up the Class action lawsuits against various manufacturers…are they weather and location based?
Here’s some stuff from the “BUSTED” section of CBC tv’s “Marketplace” consumer show:
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2010/gps_distraction/busted.html
My report is for the day and time of the inspection, only.
There is no room for conjecture (the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof).
There is nothing to base these alleged expectations on.
If the client asks, I’ll give them my “opinion”, but never do I write opinion in the report.
Maybe because I am not a “Generalist” as so many claim to be to get out from under things they don’t know.
You don’t know when it will fail, so you are “generalizing”.
You start generalizing here and where will it take you?
Roof life; ask a roofer.
A/C Life; ask HVAC contractor.
“Does it work right now?”; ask a Home Inspector.
If you don’t know (because it’s not your job), there is no reason to even talk about it is there?
As far as I am concerned, it is not my job to inform (rather take a wild *** guess) the client of anything that is definitely going to fail at some time in the future.
I don’t see anywhere that this is a requirement of this profession.
You know that you’re 100% wrong on anything like this that you put in your report.
Your only real reasoning behind putting this in the report is so that when it fails you can say, “well I told you it was going to fail”. Well my report tells you on page one" it’s going to fail" (sometime) and I don’t have a clue when that’s going to happen.
The majority of the failure rate is directly associated with the building owner’s ability to maintain the equipment. Again, how am I supposed to know this?
Consider not trying to impress people about things you don’t know.
Do the best you can with what you “do” know and have the guts to say you don’t know, but will go find out (or that there is no way to tell).
The 25yr 3tab shingle in Central Florida lasts an average of 12 years, the 30 year architectural shingle lasts about 16-18 years on average. Factor in hail storms, hurricanes etc and all bets are off as to how long a roof is going to last.
Yep.
That is why the chart is called:
The top of the roofing section says:
The note at the bottom of the chart says:
And the very bottom of the chart says:
Actually, the cartoon says it all.
In short it’s useless…
Russell, I agree with you more often than not especially after meeting you in Sarasota, however, deferring liability is always a good move. I think Nick is right on this one.
Just my 0.0002 cents adjusted for inflation.
John I hate to put stuff in reports that is not accurate and when people call, you have to tell them to read the fine print.
So your telling me that giving people false information is good? Roofs, paint, air conditioning units last nowhere as long as ion that lists. So when I give it to a client, they are going to get a false sense of security. Ooooo my ac will last about Xxxx here according to that list.
Then the call will come, well you told me it will last xxxx years and it only lasted Yyyy years.a
Then I have to tell them to read the fine print. To me it adds confusion and the numbers are no where near correct. Why would you put that in your report?
The more ammunition you give people for inaccuracy the more they will think you mislead them. O, that Russ said our roof would last 25 years and it only lasted 13, I knew not to trust him he is in the Realtors pocket. Even though YOU said nothing, and it came from this list it was put into YOUR report and reflects on YOU.
For me I think it actually adds liability. To me putting information in my report I know NOT to be accurate is not what I want to ever do.
Great Idea!!!
I am now including parts of the Chart with my 4Points and Roof Certs. 