It seems that we are not the only ones discussing this issue!
NOTE: The “Red Fonts” are mine!
http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/electrical-systems-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/6738-light-switch-proximity-bath-tub.html](http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/electrical-systems-home-inspection-commercial-inspection/6738-light-switch-proximity-bath-tub.html)
04-07-2008, 07:00 AM
Richard Franklin](http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/members/richard-franklin.html)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 11
Re: Light switch proximity to bath tub
Attached is a drawing from Code Buddy. What is forgotten is the tub zone. The location of the switch or outlet within the tub zone has been an issue for many years. Mike Holt should be leading the charge to the NEC to change this situation. GFCI’s fail. People build up a false feeling of security. If a switch or outlet is not allowed within five feet of a pool or spa, how is it that it is allowed around a tub? Are you not just as dead?
If someone is not citing code issues,
isn’t this a cop out? It’s time that all HI’s studied the code and became experts. If you are not citing the code just what are you doing? Reporting the chipped paint? Broken window?
This is an issue that should be clearly addressed by the NEC. HI’s should be leading the charge. What we continue to have is a work force that is trained in a 3rd world country making life and death decisions. In the cases of new construction it would just as easy to move the outlets or switches.
04-07-2008, 07:04 PM
Jerry Peck](http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/members/jerry-peck.html)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 11,693
Re: Light switch proximity to bath tub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Franklin
Attached is a drawing from Code Buddy. What is forgotten is the tub zone.
From the 2008 NEC.
- 410.10 Luminaries in Specific Locations.
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- (D) Bathtub and Shower Areas. No parts of cord-connected luminaries, chain-, cable-, or cord-suspended luminaries, lighting track, pendants, or ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the space directly over the tub or shower stall.
Luminaries located within the actual outside dimension of the bathtub or shower to a height of 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower threshold shall be marked for damp locations, or marked for wet locations where subject to shower spray.
You will notice that this section is under “Luminaries in Specific Locations”, not switches or receptacles.
Quote:
The location of the switch or outlet within the tub zone has been an issue for many years.
For receptacle outlets, the reference is: (underlining is mine)
From the 2008 NEC.
- 406.8 Receptacles in Damp or Wet Locations.
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- © Bathtub and Shower Space. Receptacles shall not be installed within or directly over a bathtub or shower stall.
For switches, the reference isunderlining is mine)
- 404.4 Damp or Wet Locations.
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- A surface-mounted switch or circuit breaker in a damp or wet location shall be enclosed in a weatherproof enclosure or cabinet that shall comply with 312.2. A flush-mounted switch or circuit breaker in a damp or wet location shall be equipped with a weatherproof cover. Switches shall not be installed within wet locations in tub or shower spaces unless installed as part of a listed tub or shower assembly.
Quote:
**If someone is not citing code issues, isn’t this a cop out? It’s time that all HI’s studied the code and became experts. **
Citing the correct reference is VERY IMPORTANT also.
Quote:
This is an issue that should be clearly addressed by the NEC. HI’s should be leading the charge.
I agree with that statement.
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com](http://www.constructionlitigationconsultants.com/) )
www.AskCodeMan.com](http://www.askcodeman.com/)
04-08-2008, 01:10 PM
Jerry Peck](http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/members/jerry-peck.html)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 11,693
Re: Light switch proximity to bath tub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Miller
ECJ:
So, what are you saying then, that a “zone” is a “stall” and that these two words are synonymous?
What I was saying was simply that the code did not stated what Richard F. said, the “zone” only applied to light fixtures: “You will notice that this section is under “Luminaires in Specific Locations”, not switches or receptacles.”
And that switches and receptacle outlets were addressed separately (and differently).
I would like “the zone” to be applicable to all such installations (lights, switches, receptacle outlets) for ease of understanding what is allowed / not allowed where.
When I was working with Mike Holt on his 2005 Changes to the NEC video in late 2004 we discussed this, and the wording is very poor, it actually allows things which we would think were not intended to be allowed.
Quote:
And are you advocating, even given that a “zone” is not a “stall” per se, the any switches or receptacles located outside the stall yet in the zone be equipped with raintight corers?
What I was advocating was that if one is to quote the code, and was to chide other HIs for not quoting the code, that such person should actually be quoting the correct code themselves.
Here is an example of very poor code language:
From the 2008 NEC.
- 406.8 Receptacles in Damp or Wet Locations.
-
- © Bathtub and Shower Space. Receptacles shall not be installed within or directly over a bathtub or shower stall.
“shall not be installed within or directly over”
Come on now, “within”? Who is going to install a receptacle outlet “within” a tub? Crimney, it would be submerged whenever the tub was filled.
Or “or directly over”, as in “in the ceiling”, or as in "directly over in the walls? What if the walls are set back a few inches from the tub? Those receptacles are no longer “directly over” a bathtub.
A shower stall (or tub with a shower as the shower curtain/enclosure defines ‘the shower stall area’, that’s a lot easier to define and defend.
But at a tub with no shower, is that now even a “wet area”?
All I can do is raise questions on what it says. Mike was going to submit a code change for that, but I don’t know if he ever did, I was also going to submit a code change for that, but I never did - got busy with my business and forgot about it.
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com](http://www.constructionlitigationconsultants.com/) )
www.AskCodeMan.com](http://www.askcodeman.com/)
