Originally Posted By: rbennett This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I pride myself on my electical knowledge but this one is new to me
Here goes
The meter shares a Square D box outside which serves as the main 200 amp disconect. It has space for maybe 10 breakers. It is grounded to a ground rod or building slab at that point (can't tell where the wire goes without digging) It has one 20 amp installed for an outside non GFI receptical. It is not GFI receptical.
About 50 feet of cable later another Square D box is mounted in the garage with about 20 breakers (one slot not used) no master disconect.
In my mind this is a sub panel for grounding and neutral separation thus a separate ground wire must go to the outside box or to ground.
If they had not put in the one 20 amp breaker in the out side panel the inside box could have been the main with the neutral and ground commoned.
The house is in a new gated community about one year old and the rest of the homes look like they have been wired the same.
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi to all,
Richard, I would agree that from your discription the second panel is a "sub" or secondary distribution panel, and as such should have seperation of the neutrals and grounds and have its own GEC.
Originally Posted By: bking This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The interior panel should be fed with 4-conductor cable so that the ground and neutral will be seperate. The neutral conductor must be insulated and not touching the panel.
Removing the 20amp breaker from the service equipment panel does not change anything.
Originally Posted By: rbennett This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thanks all
This is an attached garage
I think we all are saying the same thing -- Meter and disconect and ground outside -- large 3 conductor with ground cable to inside garage panel. Garage panel is a sub panel with neutral and ground separate.
Breaker fead from outside panel should be GFCI and has no effect on the picture at all
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jpope wrote:
gbeaumont wrote:
. . . and as such should have seperation of the neutrals and grounds and have its own GEC.
If this is an attached garage, an additional GEC is not necessary.
I am still trying to figure out what IS grounding the garage panel, Richard is the raceway providing the grounding, you mentioned cable length of 50 feet, but did not mention what it is in?
Am I correct in thinking that the 3 conductors you mention are supplying a potential 240V to the sub ie there are 2 hot's and 1 neutral.
Am I being dense here 
Originally Posted By: rbennett This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bruce
That is how I read it -- my real question was if the outside panel only had a 200 amp disconect breaker and the meter in it would this just be a disconect point and not be called a panel thus the neutral and ground should be cross conected in the garage regardless of where the ground was -- ie the garage to rebar grid or carried out side on the fourth conector (ground) in the feed cable
This is so basic and I could kick my self for even questioning my common sense
If I can not explain it to others -- That means that I don't understand
Originally Posted By: rbennett This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
No Gerry you are right on the money
There is 3 conductors and a ground feeding the garage panel
I was just unclear as was the outside just a disconnect point and not a panel thus the garage should be treated as the main with grounds and neutrals common or as a sub with them separate.
The ground could come from anywhere that was an approved ground
This has been a long week -- brain is dead I think
Originally Posted By: bking This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Just remember that the first point of any disconnect is considered the service equipment and the only place neutrals and grounds can be connected.
This means that all other panels must be fed with 4 conductors.
These other panels can be called main panel, subpanel, load side equipment, branch circuit panels, load panels, panel boards, load centers, etc. just be sure you report their location and their amperage etc. and check to make sure the neutrals and grounds are seperate.
I have two 200 amp panels in my garage that look like main panel service equipment but they have seperate neutrals and grounds because they each have a disconnect 200A breaker panel (service equipment) located on each side of the 400 amp meter box.
Originally Posted By: rbennett This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
rbennett wrote:
No Gerry you are right on the money
There is 3 conductors and a ground feeding the garage panel
I was just unclear as was the outside just a disconnect point and not a panel thus the garage should be treated as the main with grounds and neutrals common or as a sub with them separate.
The ground could come from anywhere that was an approved ground
This has been a long week -- brain is dead I think