Only one panel in garage?

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#1

Originally Posted By: mcameron
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This brand new house only had one panel in the garage. It had a 200 Amp main breaker and the rest of the houses breakers were under the main. The grounds and the nuetrals were on seperate bus bars. The grounds were bonded, but the neutrals were not. Please let me know if this should be considered a sub or service and if the neutrals and grounds should be on the same bus bar and/or bonded together to the box. I also could not find the main grounding wiring, should I assume it is a UFER? Thanks.

#2

Originally Posted By: jpope
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be bonded together.


Do you have a picture?

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#3

Originally Posted By: mcameron
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That is what I thought. The meter was on the opposite side of the wall. The reason why I raised the question was becuase this was a brand new house and the wiring looked OK besides the neutrals and grounds not being bonded together. Does that rule still apply if there is only one box and no subpanel? Attached is a picture of the neutrals. icon_question.gif

#4

Originally Posted By: jpope
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jpope wrote:
In a service panel, the equipment grounds and neutrals MUST be bonded together.


Regardless of any other panel(s) on the property.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
#5

Originally Posted By: mcameron
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I do not mean to “beat a dead horse”, but is it possible to not have a main service panel and the main breaker be located in the subpanel? In this case in the garage.

#6

Originally Posted By: jpope
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mcameron wrote:
I do not mean to "beat a dead horse", but is it possible to not have a main service panel and the main breaker be located in the subpanel? In this case in the garage.


No.

Power comes from the street by means of a lateral (underground service), or a drop (overhead service).

Once the service enters the dwelling, it is connected at the service panel (the first panel box in line with the service). Any subsequent panel boxes are considered equipment panels (sub panels). We are talking about a single family dwelling and not multi-family, so bear with me sparkies ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif).

Assuming your statement is accurate, the absence of any other panels in the home, and the fact that there was a 200 amp main breaker in the panel, tells us that this is the service panel and not an equipment panel.

Neutral conductors must be bonded to the grounds at the service panel.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
#7

Originally Posted By: mcameron
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Thanks for the explanation. It is going in the report as a defeciency.

#8

Originally Posted By: bbadger
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Was there a breaker at the meter outside? icon_exclaim.gif

–
Bob Badger


Electrical Construction & Maintenance


Moderator at ECN

#9

Originally Posted By: jpope
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bbadger wrote:
Was there a breaker at the meter outside? ![icon_exclaim.gif](upload://kW92MliyHA8ygoXI0UsgtBSn4ZO.gif)


That would require another box, would it not?

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
#10

Originally Posted By: bbadger
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I was just wondering if they used a a meter / main combo unit.


It is a meter socket that has one 2 pole 100 or one 2 pole 200 breaker in it, no spaces for branch circuits.

Really I doubt that is the case as he said

Quote:
The meter was on the opposite side of the wall.


With a back to back installation most people would not use a meter / main combo.

The meter main combos are good when the panel has to be located deep in the house, they also make the panel in the house a 'sub'

Bob

--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
#11

Originally Posted By: mcameron
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No, only one box and one main breaker.

#12

Originally Posted By: jpope
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bbadger wrote:
The meter main combos are good when the panel has to be located deep in the house, they also make the panel in the house a 'sub'


The combo in that situation would be the service equipment (service panel) and would still require bonding of the neutrals to the grounds, no?

In other words, the EGC would be bonded to the neutral feeder at the combo. Right?

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
#13

Originally Posted By: bbadger
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Yes, you bet ya icon_smile.gif


Together at the meter / main combo then in the garage panel they would be separate. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN