Originally Posted By: tallen This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe,
I tried on another thread to explain the dangers of a house panel and all I got was the back of the hand crap and a code reference from you . I think you should tell them about something you have seen or been a party to. I know I have been nailed more times than I care to admit and every time it was due to lack of the proper LOTO or lack off PPE. I consider myself lucky!!
As an old friend of mine said >>> there is no such thing as a dumb old electrician!!
-- I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mike,
Many HIs who read this thread actually DO understand electrical systems. You'd be surprised at some of the bonehead installations I see, installed by licensed electricians.
Makes me wonder which electrical code some of these guys follow. Maybe from Mars or Uranus...
-- Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Originally Posted By: ekartal This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I appreciate the help from all you electrical guru’s. I just received Doug Hansen’s book today. Joe has gone all out to help NACHI. Perhaps it’s a good thing to fear electricity like I do - more cautious that’s for sure. Now if I can only figure out what the heck a floating neutral is…
Originally Posted By: jtedesco This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
ekartal wrote:
I appreciate the help from all you electrical guru's. I just received Doug Hansen's book today. Joe has gone all out to help NACHI. Perhaps it's a good thing to fear electricity like I do - more cautious that's for sure. Now if I can only figure out what the heck a floating neutral is...... 
Erol Kartal
Quote:
NFPA 921, 6.5.1 Floating Neutral.
An electrical installation that is not properly grounded can continue to be used, but there will not be a fixed zero point of voltage (ground) between the two legs.
There will still be 240 V between the two legs, but instead of the voltages of the two legs being fixed at 120 V to ground each, they may vary to some other values that add to 240 V. (See Figure 6.5.1.)
All line to neutral circuits will be affected.
The actual voltages in the legs will depend on the loads on the two legs at any particular time.
For example, the voltages might be 60 and 180 as in Figure 6.5.1. The higher voltage can overheat or burn out some equipment, and the lower voltage can damage some electronic equipment.
Occupants would have seen incandescent lights that were too bright or too dim or appliances that overheated or malfunctioned in some way.
Figure 6.5.1 An example of the relation of voltages in 120/240 V services with an ungrounded neutral.
The term "Floating Neutral" is also associated with a loose splice or termination on a device such as a receptacle and or switch in a branch circuit and that is why the lights flicker sometimes.
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
"When are you planning on adding something useful? "
You see an open junction box. Let us assume that all four wires (NM cables that are entering the box) are the same type. In it all the bare wires are connected, all white wires are connected together, but the blacks two of which are connected to one wire nut and, the two anothers are connected to a seperatate wire nut.
Originally Posted By: jtedesco This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mike Parks wrote:
"When are you planning on adding something useful? "
You see an open junction box. Let us assume that all four wires (NM cables that are entering the box) are the same type. In it all the bare wires are connected, all white wires are connected together, but the blacks two of which are connected to one wire nut and, the two others are connected to a separate wire nut.
Is this OK?
Mike P.
If they are two circuits and on different phases they were probably run from two different locations to introduce a 120/240 volt circuit?
Originally Posted By: psabados This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Sounds like a dropped neutral leg somewhere and somebody decided to do a quick fix by ganging them. Most likely a current overload fried a neutral, the ganged neutral will go next requiring the proper fix. Replacement and upgrading.
But again, not the typical HI explanation, refer to qualified and licensed sparky for repairs. The open junction box would be an indication that the party performing the repairs was somewhat less than qualified
Paul
Counting down the days to Orlando 2005 T-minus 203 and counting!
Originally Posted By: Guest This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
If all the neutrals are ganged, then no circuit is truly dead by turning off the breaker to the circuit. Current from a driven device could cause a shock to a worker.
I will also surmise that there are very low odds of this happening.
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Chad,
One would have to assume that you are thinking like Mike does and assuming this junction box has multiple feeds. In that particular case I am not following because since they would both be in the same junction box it should serviced by a double pole breaker, therefore cutting off all the power to these circuits, rendering them safe to work on, even the neutrals.
To move this scenerio one step further, since this would be typical in old work rewiring, you are of course also assuming this is a 240 volt circuit and in all the residences that I have inspected it is common to find this scenerio in 120 volt circuits with a single feed, branching off to feed multiple devices.
Sorry Mike, not enough information to find the problems with this circuit, or in this case circuits if I am correct about where you are heading with this scenerio.
I believe you two boys should just kiss and make up, this is a big playground which certainly has enough room for all of us, including you two. 
While you both have different methods, both of your postings cause inspectors to think about what they are doing and even sometimes why they are doing it.
