Mobile Home Questions

(Andy E. Lee) #1

Hello fellow inspectors,

Had a question or two about regulations on mobile homes.
(1) I know that hurricane anchors are required for every mobile home installed now, but when was this rule established by HUD? I've got a 1978 mobile home without anchors, the agent is saying they are not required..?.. Any literature to support?

(2) Are Co2 Sensors required for mobile homes? I thought every residential dwelling required them before the sale as of July 2011? The agent is saying are not required until 2013. I can't find any differentiated literature to include (or not include) mobile homes.

thanks

Thanks much..

(Christopher Currins, CMI) #2

Manufactured Homes Foundation Compliance

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/documents/huddoc?id=49303gc7GUID.pdf

(James H. Bushart) #3

[quote="alee2, post:1, topic:69590"]

Hello fellow inspectors,

Had a question or two about regulations on mobile homes.
(1) I know that hurricane anchors are required for every mobile home installed now, but when was this rule established by HUD? I've got a 1978 mobile home without anchors, the agent is saying they are not required..?.. Any literature to support?

(2) Are Co2 Sensors required for mobile homes? I thought every residential dwelling required them before the sale as of July 2011? The agent is saying are not required until 2013. I can't find any differentiated literature to include (or not include) mobile homes.

thanks

Thanks much..
[/QUOTE]

You should tell the agent that you refuse to write a soft report.Let the agent know that you are reporting on issues that would endanger your client's health and safety, today. Don't worry about what the rules were in 1978. If there are fossil fuel burning appliances in the home, it should have CO detectors no matter when "code" required them to be installed, for the safety of your client. The potential for injury or death cannot be grandfathered.

(Nick Gromicko, CMI) #4

I second that Jim-think.

(Andy E. Lee) #5

Not you again. James, You and I went round and round about your presumptions before... but, learning from our other arguments I will weed through your sarcasms and take notes. Putting the words "soft reports" in a reply to a topic not relevant to deserve such evil words, whether insinuating or not, is hard for me to let go but I will consider the source.

Your right though, safety over-rides code any day of the week so 'll write it up as such. Thanks!

Christopher, I get it.. I'm not a structural engineer for HUD so I don't need to be concerned with compliance. As your links stated (and correct me if I'm wrong) Only a certified HUD engineer can issue a certificate to even embrace the idea of compliance related issues for mobile homes?

(James H. Bushart) #6

[quote="alee2, post:5, topic:69590"]

Not you again. James, You and I went round and round about your presumptions before... but, learning from our other arguments I will weed through your sarcasms and take notes. Putting the words "soft reports" in a reply to a topic not relevant to deserve such evil words, whether insinuating or not, is hard for me to let go but I will consider the source.

Your right though, safety over-rides code any day of the week so 'll write it up as such. Thanks!

Christopher, I get it.. I'm not a structural engineer for HUD so I don't need to be concerned with compliance. As your links stated (and correct me if I'm wrong) Only a certified HUD engineer can issue a certificate to even embrace the idea of compliance related issues for mobile homes?
[/QUOTE]

Someday, Andy, I might be able to master the art of telling someone to go to hell in such a manner in which they would enjoy the trip, but I'm not there yet.

I did not say ... nor did I intend to mean ... that you intended to write a soft report. I did say and I do mean that it is obvious from the remarks that were made by the sales agent that it was being suggested to you that you do.

Seeking the date in which a safety issue went from being the choice of the builder to becoming a minimum basic standard is just something that home inspectors should not be considering when advising their clients. I hope you are able to educate this sales agent, accordingly.

Good luck.

(Andy E. Lee) #7

It's actually not really hard. Silence works really well, you'll get there.

I'm not certain the agent was intending me to write a soft report either. Not sure where you gather that assumption from a couple sentences of text but thanks for the clarification.

The importance of my question is not "how do I report?" but rather "How do I know?". Do you see the difference?

I already knewhow to report it before you told me. However, I would never know the answer to the original questions "when was this rule established by HUD?" or *"*Are Co2 Sensors required for mobile homes?" It's important (at least for me) to be able to answer these questions just as it may be important for you to explore and learn whatever it is your interests are.

Personally, I like learning the who, the what, the why, the when and the where and not just the "If".

(Christopher Currins, CMI) #8

[quote="alee2, post:5, topic:69590"]

Christopher, I get it.. I'm not a structural engineer for HUD so I don't need to be concerned with compliance. As your links stated (and correct me if I'm wrong) Only a certified HUD engineer can issue a certificate to even embrace the idea of compliance related issues for mobile homes?
[/QUOTE]

No that is not what it says.

You asked
[QUOTE]
but when was this rule established by HUD?
[/QUOTE]
D. Foundation Compliance
All foundation systems, new and existing, must meet the FHA guidelines in effect at the time of the certification. The current guidelines are published in the Permanent Foundations Guide for Manufactured Housing (HUD-4930.3G), dated September 1996. A certification attesting to compliance with this handbook must be obtained from a licensed professional engineer or registered architect.

A copy of the certification must be included in the lenders loan file and the insuring binder when submitted to HUD/FHA.

A. Certification attesting compliance with HUD’s PFGMH must be:

  1. completed by a licensed professional engineer or registered architect, who is licensed/registered in the state where the manufactured home is located;

    1. site specific and contain the engineer’s or registered architect’s signature, seal, and/or state license/certification number. In states where seals are issued, the seal must be on the certification.
    2. the foundation certification, showing that the foundation meets the guidelines published in the PFGMH that were in effect at the time of certification, is acceptable for future FHA loans, provided there are no alterations and/or observable damage to the foundation.

As James is saying worry about the condition the home is in today, not what may or may not have been required yesterday; Or in your case 34 years ago.

(James H. Bushart) #9

[quote="alee2, post:7, topic:69590"]

It's actually not really hard. Silence works really well, you'll get there.

[/QUOTE]

I am silently holding a finger up to my computer screen. Can you guess which one?;-)

(Christopher Currins, CMI) #10

[quote="alee2, post:1, topic:69590"]

(2) Are Co2 Sensors required for mobile homes? I thought every residential dwelling required them before the sale as of July 2011? The agent is saying are not required until 2013. I can't find any differentiated literature to include (or not include) mobile homes.

[/QUOTE]
This agent needs to brush up on the laws.

What is the effective date for installing a CO device?
For a single-family dwelling, the effective date is July 1, 2011.

What is the definition of a dwelling unit?
A dwelling unit is defined as a single-family dwelling, duplex, lodging house, dormitory, hotel, motel, condominium, time-share project, or dwelling unit in a multiple-unit dwelling unit building.

All other multi-family residential units must be equipped with a detector on or before January 1, 2013, not just those being sold.

http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/strucfireengineer/pdf/bml/Frequently%20asked%20questions%20on%20Carbon%20Monoxide.pdf

(Andy E. Lee) #11

That's what I found. No mention of "Mobile Homes", per say. Except to say they are included in the broad definition of a dwelling unit, probably "single family dwelling". Unless there is some HUD or motor vehicle loop hole I'm not seeing I have to consider it as a dwelling unit.

(Jeffrey R. Jonas) #12

[quote="alee2, post:11, topic:69590"]

That's what I found. No mention of "Mobile Homes", per say. Except to say they are included in the broad definition of a dwelling unit, probably "single family dwelling". Unless there is some HUD or motor vehicle loop hole I'm not seeing I have to consider it as a dwelling unit.
[/QUOTE]

"Mobile Homes" now fall into the category of "Manufactured Homes", thus eliminating the "motor vehicle" loophole.

Before Jim jumps your chit (even if justified) the correct gas is "CO", not Co2.

(Andy E. Lee) #13

Yep, you're right. Thanks Jeff

(Marcel R. Cyr, CMI) #14

**[FONT=Arial][size=2]Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Detectors

**[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]The Real Estate Agent’s Role

A law went into effect on September 12, 2009 regarding the installation of smoke and carbon monoxide detectors. Provisions affecting the transfer of property go into effect for closings after October 31, 2009.

Many questions have been raised about the duty of the real estate agent with regard to the new law.
Passage of the law was undertaken by those concerned about safety.

Smoke, fires and carbon monoxide kill Maine residents. Detectors contribute greatly to saving lives. That fact has been recognized for years regarding [/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]smoke detectors, in that they have been required in new construction, multi-family buildings, rehabs and conversions since 1985[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]. [/size][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][size=2]The new law updates the type of detectors, and adds the fact of being sure the smoke detectors are in place [/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]at transfer[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2], as another logical place to “touch” the property and save lives.[/size][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][size=2]
Carbon monoxide concerns are much more recent.
[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]The new law creates the requirement that CO detectors be installed in new construction, multi-family,
rehabs and conversions as of September 12, 2009.
**[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]And it also mirrors the smoke detector section in that CO detectors must be in place [/size][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][size=2]at transfer [/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]for those properties which were required to have them installed after September 12, 2009. [/size][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][size=2]Some of the provisions are less clear than would have been ideal. Some of the provisions have errors in them which will need to be corrected when the Legislature convenes in January. [/size][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][size=2]But the intent to save lives and educate and empower buyers to protect themselves and their families is clear. [/size][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][size=2]That is the message that should be conveyed by agents to consumers.[/size][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][size=2]
[/size][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][size=2]So what is the real estate agent’s role under the new law? [/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]There is [/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]no specific duty [/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]placed upon the agent under any section of the law. The real estate agent’s job is not to explain the types of detectors, or their location, or how to install them. The real estate agent’s job is not to buy the detectors, or put them in place.
The real estate agent’s job is not to print the certification form and require that the buyer sign it at closing. However, under [/size][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][size=2]general fiduciary duties to clients**[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2], and under the Maine Real Estate Commission’s requirement that licensees be familiar with requirements under the law, it is the agent’s duty to inform their buyer clients about this new law and that they will be asked to sign a certification form at closing. The agent should direct the buyer client to the Questions and Answers about detectors in the Residential Property Transaction Booklet available in Zipforms. The agent should direct the buyer client to a discussion with their building inspector about the requirement to have the proper detectors in place (a check-off has been added to the Due
Diligence/Investigations paragraph of the Purchase and Sale Agreement in Zipforms). The agent should direct the buyer client to the Fact Sheet supplied by the State Fire Marshall’s office. The agent should suggest the buyer client call the local fire department, or the State Fire Marshall’s office for more information (contact person
is Richard Taylor – 207.626.3873.)
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