This is not a conspiracy by me, Nick, or Mark Cohen. It is factual, and based on case law in the US.
We live in the most litigious society in the world. Everyone is looking for a free ride. Buyer beware is a thing of the past.
As such, slimebuckets look for ways to punish those who are trying to do a good job, and trying to make a living. These are the same people who blame everyone but themselves for their woes and for the poor choices they make.
I have been harping on havng “special knowledge” for years. It is something that all inspectors should be aware of.
Did I say that knowledge of the building code is a bad thing? No I didnt.
I started to post something on this thread last night but decided to wait.
When I was on active duty in the military at several points I was involved in what they referred to as “high risk” training. The number one concern and something that was stressed at every single training meeting and department head meeting was…SOP. The SOP is there for two reasons. (1) it protects the student by presenting, in writing, what the expectations of training facility were toward the student. It was the level of competence (enabling and terminal objectives)in order to graduate. (2) It provided the essential guidelines for the instructors and staff for proper applications of training. IN other words, it provided “boundaries” that could not, would not ever be exceeded or breached. I personally fired numerous instructors who failed to follow SOP. One infraction resulted in termination of their status as an instructor. SOPs are for the protection of ALL who are involved.
I routinely hear inspectors brag about exceeding the SOP and I cringe when I do. Anyone is free to do whatever they want, but in an neverending effort to protray their business as superior to the next guy, they open themselves up for incredible scrutiny if they ever find themselves in front of a judge, review board or a family they have mislead. I do not believe anyone is saying having the knowledge is BAD, but trying too hard to use it as a leveraging tool at the risk of falling on their own sword could be detrimental to their business and the profession in general. Raising the bar internally is good, but once someone exceeds an SOP the “bar” becomes arbitrary. The borders or boundaries have at least been blurred or completely removed. Someone else said using expensive, diagnostic tools and devices could open one up as well. I agree. I have many of these tools that I bought over the years and have learned not to use them as a routine part of the inspection. I never “troubleshoot” as that is outside the scope of an inspection. Using normal operating controls and making the equipment operate normally is all the buyers are typically going to do. Once I know the equipment is faulty, my job is done. Too many inspectors are going beyond that, giving their “opinions” as the problem or cause. That too is moving the proverbial lines or bar and gives the general public the impression that home inspections are more than what it really is.
There are going to be those that will jump now to the conclusion that what we are saying is “do the minimum and nothing more”. Nothing could be further from the truth. This is a very large continuum, there is middle ground but that is exactly what the SOP establishes.
Well said Doug I hope many read this twice .
It looks to me that most often it is the older experienced Home inspector who push the SOP and frequently the newer Home Inspector who thinks they should exceed the SOP.
Thanks again . Roy Cooke
Actually, I do have court cases involved around the SOP I am referring to, only it isn’t regarding Home inspections. There was a case of a young man drowning at Rescue Swimmer School in 1987. Every single instructor and staffer that was courtmartialed the thing that got them was they all exceeded the SOP. They did not have a leg to stand on when the evidence was presented in court once it was determined they had done so. It was basically open and shut. The GAO investigators were up our behinds for several years after the incident, constantly returning to the Schools to check and see if the SOP was being adhered to. I ended up going there right after it happened as part of a clean sweep and review process. Several people ended up in jail, discharged and careers ended. All for failing to follow SOP. Do what you like but don’t ever say you weren’t warned. That is only one incidence of where I have seen people’s lives dramatically changed forever for failing to follow the simple rules of procedure.
Some folks refer to “exceeding” an SOP when there is, in fact, no such thing. There is “adhering to” an SOP and there is “deviating from” an SOP. If you consistently employ a measure not contained in an existing SOP, you have simply created a different SOP and would be prudent to describe it as such, IMO.
Thank you. Interestingly, myself and two very experienced and senior HI were discussing this very topic yesterday afternoon. One element of our discussion is the current trends of “outside forces” being allowed to determine SOPs, acceptable credentials, levels of competence, etc. The slow encrochment upon the HI industry by people unfamiliar with what a HI is or does is everywhere. They are deciding for us what a HI should be, and do much to the detriment of the business. Unfortunately, we have many willing accomplises within our ranks.
I agree with the statment Mr. Cohen has said…however lets not confuse the difference in LEARNING the CODE aspects to broaden the knowledge versus spitting out CODE in a physical sense.
Adults should be at a point in life they can LEARN something without putting it in reports or otherwise. The learning or obtaining ICC Education is just that…additional education.
As a Electrician…Do I really need to know Electrical Theory to do my JOB…heck no…If you have wired one house you have wired a hundred as it is not brain surgery…but a CHOICE is made to learn more for self obtaining worth.
Learning is great but not using your knowledge properly is looking for trouble .
Those who have been in the Inspection much longer the I set up the SOP.
Following it can help keep us out of trouble .
Not following it can sure make it harder to stay out of trouble .
If you look you will see all good Home inspection associations and all good suppliers of reporting systems use a very similar SOP and I thing it is the only way to go .
Roy Cooke
not saying that…I am talking a totally different thing here…it is painting a picture that a HI should not obtain additional education like ICC and so on for fear of increased liability so it means some will not obtain it.
I think adults know when and when not to use information that is risky for them or atleast they should know this.
Coming from someone who’s bread and butter is on the line, it is expected.
Blaine, James, Doug, and anyone else I can’t remember right now are all making right on, excellent posts! Very smart. There is a reason we are told to learn from our elders, not speaking of old people but those in our profession many years.
Some newer inspectors have taken gambles on certain things that older, wiser inspectors just sat back and watched, and now they are going to get burned for all the money and time wasted.:neutral:
If anyone got that impression from me I apologize as that was not my intent, because I am a firm believer in getting additional training and information. My own office bookshelves are full of training tapes, DVDs, books and training aids on HI and construction. I have amassed hundreds of training websites on the office computer. I have stacks of training certificates gathering dust, but I do not try to pass myself off as anything other than a Home Inspector. I too believe getting all the training and information you can benefits you, your customers and the other HI you interact with. Our local NACHI chapter has training every month. We don’t call in the big dogs but we have local tradesmen give lectures or come in the enlighten us as to their profession and how our business affects them and vice verse. We often get clarifications from them on proper identification of discrepancies, laws regarding their professions, etc.
Yes Wendy I do have a financial interest in such a statement. Fortunately Home Inspectors are not the only market for our product. Just to set the record straight my bread and butter is doing inspection work not training.
I agree with what most of the others have said (each person has to do what they feel is right).
You said it well and I agree with all the posts Continuing Education is the way to go .
Both Char and I have done about 50 hours each for the last many years.
We have in this area about 15 Home inspectors and unfortunatly, I have not seen one at any of the CE we have been at.
Many are NACHI members and if the have been doing the CE I have no idea where it could be .
Roy Cooke
Strange how there have been no posts that I can see where those who do exceed the SOP telling us they are correct and we are wrong .
In seminars I have attended over 20 years a prominant attorney advised over and over “Do not exceed the Standards”. It is true.
There are those persons who choose to exceed the SoP. Some do it to “protect the public”, some do it to advertise and some do it because they are “Saviour” mentalities.
The problem I have with the latter behavior is when they start yelling “everyone needs to do it this way” and they affect an entire industry in a bad way.
The SoP should define a minimum requirement. If people want to exceed the SoP with code, safety, thermography etc then let them write an alternate OPTIONAL SoP the consumer can choose.
Your product of how to take the test is 100% a good product and if I were to want to take same I would be looking for where you and Joe were doing your next class. Please understand that as an instructor I feel that you are one of the best.
Yes, I believe that one of higher skill is held to a higher standard and this is how it should be. If I want a structural Eng or PE to look at my pole barn then I must pay more $$. No problem.
I also know if I want a light bulb replaced I do not need someone who holds a EE. (Just my wife on a ladder with me holding it) Her education and skills are in another area than that of an EE and worth more money than the EE.
I do question the need of the ICC background in the HI profession but as you say – to each their own
If ICC were to become the LAW in Florida (and I do not see that) like it or not if I wanted to be a HI then I must become ICC or what ever the LEGAL requirements are. Yes, I might be able to go around it by working under someone else but that is not what the law would have been for.
It all comes down to - can you inspect and give your client a good picture of the property? Yes you and I can and that is what our client want.
In my market the $150,000 home is the norm and trust me they are not in bad shape. Florida block homes are good and they do not take a PE background to inspect.
One better know HVAC and electrical or one is letting the client down. ICC background will not help the client much.
I also would like to see to what extent an HI has painted a larger target on his back if he has more knowledge and equipment. It seem to me that his E&O insurance should go down because he is good.
While you and I are not on the same page in a lot of areas I want to see the facts on this issue. Not just a short sound bite of a “what if.”
Thank you for the compliment. I agree with most of what you posted 100%.
From my own experience I know that I have been able to improve my inspection skills and give my clients a better product from the countless hours I have spent reading the code books. I agree that it is not for everyone.
I would also like to read something other than just a post from Nick on the subject. There should be no problem with posting a link to the case since Mr Cohen mentioned it in his warning.
We have a member who was also instructed by his attorney to remove his P.E. qualifications from his marketing for similar reasons.
Nearly all filed complaints against home inspectors mention codes. I can hear the plaintiff’s attorney now…
“Mr. inspector, my client specifically chose you to do the inspection becuase you proudly advertised that you were Code Certified. It was more than reasonable for my client to assume that since you were advertising this on your home inspection brochure that you were going to make sure everything was up to code. That is why my client chose you. Are you now telling the court that your brochure is designed to trick clients into hiring you?”