NACHI's entrance exam failure rate climbs to 53%+

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#1

Originally Posted By: gromicko
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One of NACHI’s many membership requirements http://www.nachi.org/membership.htm one must fulfill before applying to NACHI is our entrance examination at http://www.nachi.org/aboutexam.htm Changes made to it at the beginning of the year has (as predicted) made it more difficult to pass. It now has a failure rate of greater than 53% and an average score of failing. This low passing rate is despite the exam being open-book (which should make it easy). This exam has been taken more than 30,000 times providing NACHI with more analyzable data about the home inspection industry than has ever been collected anywhere else. Up-to-date online stats can be viewed at:


http://exams.nachi.org/stats.php

Archived stats link can be found there as well.

--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

#2

Originally Posted By: Guest
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For God’s sake Nick, the horse is dead.


If the data is so valuable, pertinent and analyzable then exactly what are the demographics of the test takers? Are they dead serious entrants to the profession or a bunch of fat middle aged women passing time between phone calls on pay per minute phone sex scams.

You can call the test demanding or challenging but by any real standard it's a laughable minimum requirement that holds the bar so high that anyone remotely connected to the field can walk under unbstructed in 20 minutes.

Please spare us the comparison between this test and the NHIE which is a proctored exam for which a fee is charged and the test takers have prepared and studied. If you focused the same energy on making the test meaningful as you do on the promotion of the test you may actually have something to brag about. For now though, even you must see that it's a joke and no amount of Gromicko spin will change the perception of home inspectors everywhere when they see just what it takes to be '"certified". Bestowing that title on an individual for having met this requirement is a sham perpetrated on the American public.

Ask your own membership if they're proud to have passed. Until then it may be in your best interest to start treating the test like a dark family secret.

#3

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Chad,


Once again, you take information which is both relevant and informative, and twist it to your own device. It matters not what you think, Chad, as we are still the only association with an entrance exam.

It is on par with the NHIE? I do not believe so, nor was it ever intended to be. It is an entrance exam. A test designed to determine if the taker had the base knowledge to enter the profession and this association. I would expect a seasoned inspector to find it easy.

The test that the Education Committee has been working on is designed to be the NACHI equivalent (or better) than the NHIE and NAHI exams.

Why you continue to bash this organization and all it does, is beyond me. Based upon the e-mails I receive, many folks agree that you continue to be a troublemaker on a bulletin board sponsored by an association you are a guest of.

Are you done yet, or will you continue this nonsensical rant?

--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

#4

Originally Posted By: John Bowman
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Hmmmm. Good post Joe. Just imagine the unqualified that we are keeping out because they can’t pass our entrance exam.


They can join other organizations if they wanted to. Some don't require the passing of any test for entry. Individuals should look at their own glass house before throwing stones.

#5

Originally Posted By: Guest
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


jfarsetta wrote:
Chad,

Once again, you take information which is both relevant and informative, and twist it to your own device. It matters not what you think, Chad, as we are still the only association with an entrance exam.

Sorry to be so aggressive in my response. Please take a minute and tell me what what information was presented that is relevant and/or informative. No one knows who is taking this test, or how many people have taken it. It might be the same ten folks doing it over and over. The statistics are meaningless.

It is on par with the NHIE? I do not believe so, nor was it ever intended to be. It is an entrance exam. A test designed to determine if the taker had the base knowledge to enter the profession and this association. I would expect a seasoned inspector to find it easy.

We agree that it's not on par w/ the NHIE. They don't presume to "certify" those that successfully pass that exam. This test in no way determines if the taker has the base knowledge to enter the profession and it scares me that you think it does. Multiple choice: what's the correct spelling of "receptacle'. Now you're getting me worried some, Joe

The test that the Education Committee has been working on is designed to be the NACHI equivalent (or better) than the NHIE and NAHI exams.
get er done

Why you continue to bash this organization and all it does, is beyond me. Based upon the e-mails I receive, many folks agree that you continue to be a troublemaker on a bulletin board sponsored by an association you are a guest of.

I don't bash the whole association, but find it very disturbing that "statistics' like these are presented as credible and meaningful.

Are you done yet, or will you continue this nonsensical rant?


I'm done on this topic...
#6

Originally Posted By: dfrend
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Statistics are just that. I for one am tired of hearing your constant dribble on this. I’d like to see you sit down and take the exam in “20 minutes” and see your score. I would bet it would be a very low score. After all, since you are "remotely connected to the field " you should have no problem in 20 minutes.

–
Daniel R Frend


www.nachifoundation.org


The Home Inspector Store


www.homeinspectorstore.com

#7

Originally Posted By: Guest
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/pass.php.htm ]


I'm a little embarrassed I got any wrong.

#8

Originally Posted By: dfrend
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Congratulations. I am glad I did not bet anything. On the bright side, you did up the numbers on the statistics some. But your little quest has only made it clearer that the statistics ARE meaningful.


Those who are making the average failing are not ready to inspect. Are the newbies who pass ready? Well, If you can pass it in 13 minutes and are comfortable inspecting then why should you assume that somebody that takes their time and passes it is not up to par?

Nobody here in this thread is arguing that it is the NHIE or that NACHI should not eventually have some proctored exams. But if someone can pass this exam, then I think they have demonstrated a minimum level of competency. There are ways to beat most systems. Is this a perfect one? Not by a long shot. Does it make a minimum standard? sure. As an example, I have 30 some college credits from the upper level fire classes I have like Instructor 3 and Fire Officer 3. How does anybody know it was me that took those classes? I could have paid some cronie to sit through and take the tests. Nobody ever checked ID. But University of Maryland, a major university, has them towards a fire science degree.

--
Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com

#9

Originally Posted By: Scotty Lee
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Quote:
jbowman Posted: Oct 12, 2004 7:43 AM Post subject:




Hmmmm. Good post Joe. Just imagine the unqualified that we are keeping out because they can't pass our entrance exam.

They can join other organizations if they wanted to. Some don't require the passing of any test for entry. Individuals should look at their own glass house before throwing stones.


I know that this must be directed toward ASHI. Yes, it is true you can join ASHI with no experience and without taking a test. Now for the BIG BUT!

You are not listed on the ASHI website search feature and you can not say you can not advertise that you belong to ASHI until you complete 50 inspections, have your reports verified to the standards, take the SoP exam and pass the NHIE. At this point you are a C2 member kind of like being on probation. Once you complete 250 inspections and have done the other requirements then you are a full member.

This is why more experienced inspectors join ASHI over any other professional home inspector origination. This is not to say that newbies are not welcome because they are, its just that they will not get instant gratification as they will with NACHI.
#10

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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For general conversation and information. I’m in Kansas City. Besides being an active HI, I’m a National HI Trainer (PITI). I have students take our 6 day, 8 day or 12 day class and then go out and join NACHI, ASHI, NAHI or go back to their state of origin and sometimes take a licensing exam. Those joining ASHI, NAHI or NACHI will often take the applicable exam (NHIE, CRI, or NACHI) very soon after the classes are over - while everything is still fresh in their minds.


They quite frequently call us to tell us how they did on the exams and to give us feedback on how pertinent the questions were, or how difficult they felt the test was - and whether they passed or not.

ASHI used to have a much higher failure rate before it became the NHIE. Since its been the NHIE, very few of our students or other inspectors I've met in this area have failed the exam.

We hear about failures and passes with all the tests. Some students think the new NAHI CRI exam is more difficult, some say the NHIE, some think NACHI's is hard. I guess it has a lot to do with the person taking the test.

When I was still on ASHI's National BOD several years ago, one of the topics at several meetings was how to keep the new NHIE Test at a passing rate that the licensed states would approve of. If a test is too difficult and too many people fail, they start complaining to the state OR their congressman, etc - SO - If you're trying to SELL or Lease or ??? your test to the state licensing agencies, you need to have a good percentage balance of pass/fail that they approve - not you approve.

I hope this helps you all.

#11

Originally Posted By: dfrend
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Well stated!

–
Daniel R Frend


www.nachifoundation.org


The Home Inspector Store


www.homeinspectorstore.com

#12

Originally Posted By: bhendry
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Hi Scotty,


Correct me if I am wrong:

"You are not listed on the ASHI website search feature and you can not say you can not advertise that you belong to ASHI until you complete 50 inspections, have your reports verified to the standards, take the SoP exam and pass the NHIE. "

Before branding - candidates were listed on the one search tool. Now candidates have a separate search listing. I believe you should not use the logo as a candidate - but you can let anyone know you are a candidate

"At this point you are a C2 member kind of like being on probation."

I see a 'special' logo in use for this stage. I'm not sure why anyone would want to be involved with the candidate to C2 process; it would be less effort/more efficient just to do everything required once. What do you get as a full member over a C2 - a different logo to advertise with?

#13

Originally Posted By: bbadger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Chad what happened, did someone from NACHI bully you in school, or maybe you took a blow to the head at some point?


I only ask because I am trying to figure out why you waste your time here, I have a few ideas.


1)You have some sort of personal problem with a member of NACHI and you feel your posts will get back at them.

2)You did sustain a head injury and you are not responsible for your actions.

3)You are just a jerk with to much time on their hands.

If there is another reason why you spend so much time at an organization that you do not like or belong to I sure would be interested to hear it?

My gut feeling is it is #3. ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif)

Bob

--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

#14

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Hey Bob, tell us how you really feel icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif


We've been asking the same for somewhere around a year. Most of us just see his posts for what they are. #3.

#15

Originally Posted By: John Bowman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Scotty Lee wrote:
Quote:
jbowman Posted: Oct 12, 2004 7:43 AM Post subject:



They can join other organizations if they wanted to. Some don't require the passing of any test for entry. Individuals should look at their own glass house before throwing stones.


I know that this must be directed toward ASHI. Yes, it is true you can join ASHI with no experience and without taking a test.


Scotty

It wasn't meant for any one particular organization. Sorry that you felt that it was your organization, but if the shoe fits, why not.
#16

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Again, the NACHI exam is a valid and recognized exam, whether some folks and other organizations want to acknowledge this.


The results are relevent.

--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

#17

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Chad Fabry wrote:
For now though, even you must see that it's a joke and no amount of Gromicko spin will change the perception of home inspectors everywhere when they see just what it takes to be '"certified". Bestowing that title on an individual for having met this requirement is a sham perpetrated on the American public.


Chad, the entrance exam is not a joke and it serves the intended purpose. I believe that it is a medium level challenge that gives incentive, encouragement, hope and provides a minimum qualifier to new entrants to the business. NACHI is good at supporting new inspectors and helping them run the gauntlet.

The "Certification" piece is marketing and salesmanship. You cannot place it in the same bracket as state licensing exams, ICC code exams, etc... It has been my observation that as a whole, inspectors are poor marketers. As you may know, sales and marketing sometimes seems "over the top". The NACHI certification may seem over the top to experienced inspectors but not to the general public (our clients). It is, without a doubt, excellent marketing. You seem to want to squeeze it into some kind purists box. This reminds me of fellow fisherman that scoff at those that don't use bamboo rods, artificial flies and barbless hooks. If you're a purist that's fine. I'm happiest when my line is wet. I could care less what kind of fish I catch with whatever bait. I just want to catch fish. The chances are, I will catch a lot more fish than the purist but we both do what makes us happy.

It is not a sham on the general public as you have stated and here's proof: I encourage my web site visitors to take the NACHI entrance exam and provide them a link to it. In fact, some of my clients have taken the exam, failed it and commented to me about how difficult it was. They are professionals in their field, they are clueless about the inner workings of the home. That's why they hire us. I present the NACHI entrance exam to the general public for full disclosure. It's a fact that I have received business from clients that have taken it.

Are you a purist Chad?

--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.
#18

Originally Posted By: Guest
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


John,


First let me say thanks for writing a well thought out essay that has forced me to stop and think instead of react. I said I'd stop commenting on this topic because I figured that it'd degrade into a name calling soiree and damn if you didn't prove me wrong.

I still take issue with the use of "certified" based on the entrance exam. As for the exam itself, it is useful but more as an aptitude test to give the taker a feel for their skills, and possibly as a study aid. It is not without merit, but neither is it the epitome of indicators for actual ability. When Gerry finishes the test he and his committee are working on, that'll complement the certification process.

Your use of it as a marketing tool is a good idea and if other members are reading, they'd be smart to try it as well. However, it'll spin the statistics toward a higher fail ratio which will support the notion that it's a hard test.

I understand your points John and they're well taken.

As for being a purist.. nah, but I feel that we have a great responsibility to provide an excellent service to our client. They're counting absolutely on our knowledge and it'd better be far more encompassing than the scope presented on the test.

#19

Originally Posted By: jonofrey
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Chad,


I agree.

--
Inspection Nirvana!

We're NACHI. Get over it.

#20

Originally Posted By: jquinn
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wow, two civil responses in a row. What’s next ? Oh, oh, I know … Bush and Kerry are firing up the barbeque on the white house lawn as we speak. As if icon_razz.gif icon_razz.gif


James Quinn
Sherlock home inspections inc.
Kitchener, Ontario CANADA!!