Wondering if I belong?

I have to admit, for the first time since I have been here with NACHI, I feel maybe I don’t belong.
I read a Thread with alot of discussion with a few of the more esteemed members of the association on 7/23/09 about the NHIE Exam.
Here is 1 of my 2 questions relating to this topic.
Nick staited “We do not chase newbies”, let them all get licensed up and legal, then come see us. I’m a newbie as I have been here for only 10 months, and had already renewed my membership. Maybe I need to go, until I can meet the qualifications you all expect.
I came here to learn from the best, but if my caliber of experience is not good enough, I will leave.
Question 2
Mr. Bushart wrote in a thread, “A license is strictly a basic minimum entry level qualification, with no assurance of skill”.
That could be said to be true of your Mechanic, Nurse, Appliance salseman, you get the idea.
The quality of the Ongoing Education as well as background is so very important, but the exams, tests, licenses allow others to review your education and thats what the public looks at, and they are the ones we call clients.
I came to NACHI to learn from the Best and try to do everything I can to offer the Best in return to clients. NACHI is the BEST, but you have to look at the future of the industry. It won’t change alot of minds, but why not do a poll on what NACHI members think about state testing and NACHI involvement.
Steve

Hi Steve,

Personally I think you’re reading into the Quotes you posted a little to much, everyone is welcome at Internachi, many times you may need thick skin when reading some of the responses from different folks from all areas of the country and world, but the two quotes you mentioned above do not have anything regarding Internachi not wanting new Inspectors to be among the ranks of a more experienced inspector.

I for one would not belittle an individual who asks a question in which he is searching for an answer, there are folks here who will try to belittle you, but in fact they are making fools of themselves, not you.

I agree with Dale!!!

Yep If you want answers this is the place , Ignore the the quips and the higher than thou attitudes, get want you can which is a lot of info No matter where you are there is always going to be arguments and disagreements . Just part of life.

Steve,

The point is not to detract from the licensee, but the license itself…as an indicator of competency.

Special interest groups who sell tests and who sell education have invented what they claim to be a method of quantifying success as a home inspector. A passing score of XXX on a test, and XXX hours of education and “Whamo”…you are instantly and equally as qualified and competent as any of your competitors.

This is simply not true.

You cannot quantify what we do. 40 years as a licensed electrician does not help you identify PB. 180 hours of home inspection classes in a state that has no building codes (like Kansas) does not teach you (1) what the builders are allowed to get away with and (2) how to effectively communicate a defect without having a minimum basic standard to refer to.

The public is being duped…not by the licensees, themselves, who are simply obeying the law and acting in good faith. The public is being duped by the money changers in the temple, those who sell tests and “education”, who have taken our profession and turned it into a den of thieves.

The license is an indicator of entry level skills. Period.

The NHIE is a test used by states to determine who might have these entry level skills, but the test does not require anyone to write a single report…and real inspectors on real inspections are not presented “multiple choice answers” to select from when identifying and communicating material defects to their clients. Nor does the test measure one’s ability to communicate, verbally, with clients as they walk through the house with you and ask you questions.

Well put. Steve its unfortunate however “ALL” inspectors learn as they go. No inspector is 100% qualified or educated and IMO no inspector will ever be. We are generalist not specialist. We do not spend day after day repairing major systems. Watch all the videos. Take all the test. Most importantly “ASK” “ASK” “ASK” and “ASK” again. I drove people crazy and still do. Why because I always feel I have something to learn. I’ll never stop asking. Some here likes to pick on people out of fun and that’s something your just going to have to get use to. If your like me in my mid 30’s most will tease you anyway atleast for the first ten years or so however most here comes to the plate and helps when someone calls for it. I wouldn’t give up this board or the friends I made here for anything. They have educated and saved me on numerous occations. Something I will always be grateful for and something I will always remember when the day comes that I think I might know it all or heard it all.

Buck Hartley, CMI](http://www.nachi.org/forum/users/bhartley/)

InterNACHI Member

Re: Wondering if I belong?
I agree with Dale!!!

If you are “Ditto” then I am “Tritto” :stuck_out_tongue:

Steven, I apologize for seeing this post late in the game, but you can darn well expect a lot of help from all kinds of Members here, no matter where their geographic location area is.
I for one will be among the first to help you, if I can. And so are so many others.
Do not be fooled or mislead by certain posts or threads, read and comprehend the one’s that most benefit you.

Hope this helps. :):smiley:

To all that replied, Dale, Buck, Wayne, James, Frank and (2) members I call friends, Billy and Marcel Thank You.
I believe more discussion should be given to the NHIE Exam, it is a topic that is not going to go away just by ignoring it.

The NHIE is a perfectly fine minimum standard “beginner’s” exam with a very low passing cut-off score, used by many states to license newbies fresh out of school.

As the inspection industry’s preeminent University, with more approvals and accreditations for advanced course offerings than the rest of the industry (including all schools) combined, the beginner’s NHIE is nothing InterNACHI wants to be associated with.

Once again… “DITTO”:stuck_out_tongue:

I had a brother-in-law at one time who was very educated. Tops in high school, 4.0 average in college, degrees in business, management, and an MBA from another major college. He called me one day to ask me how to put gas in is car that he rented.

Having top educational requirements does not make you a good inspector. 80% of having a business is communication, documentation, and customer service. It is sad today that all of these three things are missing in all industries. All inspectors must concentrate on these areas, or fail. Licensing in all areas of home inspections, driving, marriages, fishing, hunting, are all only for income for the states and their special interest groups, and are all basic in nature. Only your clients can say if you are doing a good job; that is our ultimate goal. I have done home inspections for engineers, lawyers, professsional athletes, and real estate agents who are purchasing their own homes. You get business like this, and then you can call yourself successful, and professional.

IMO, all inspectors should go on at least 100 inspections with other experienced professional inspectors before you go out on your own. OJT it the best education. That is why Nick and Ben are pushing the videos; and you should watch each one at least twice.

Hi Steve,

If HI is what you enjoy doing, then don’t let anyone say your not worthy. Nobody knows everything, every single one of us is learning, even those who have been doing HI for 10 years. This is a complex business with tons of complex information. I learned along time ago, when someone told me I wouldn’t be able to get something done, no matter how difficult, I proved them all wrong. So, again I say, If doing Home Inspections is something you enjoy, then don’t let anyone make you think you can’t get it done. Sure there will be days like :shock: and days like :stuck_out_tongue: and days like :mad: and days like :cool:, but in the end, your doing something you enjoy.

Hope this helps!

When I was working in the corporate world, I always wondered what it would be like to have an office with a window. I just never realized that that office would be in a pickup truck.

Jim,
No matter how many times I read your perception of entry level testing “qualifying” a home inspector to be equal to the “best of the best”, I still can’t fathom your point.

There are qualified people that take this “funky test” time after time and continue to fail. There are also those that know nothing about home inspection that pass it. Entry-level tests are not necessarily about determining the extent of knowledge in every subject, but rather your ability to derive a correct answer. There are numerous tests out there where you are supposed to answer “which is the best answer (when they are all correct)”. There are questions that you’re not expected to be able to answer.

I would be skeptical of hiring a home inspector with 30 years of construction experience that cannot pass the NAHI test. They may know the subject matter, but they may not know how to apply their knowledge to the specific task at hand.

I would be less skeptical on hiring someone with no experience that passed the NAHI test because of their superior ability to “think on their feet”.

No entry-level tests places everyone on an even playing field.
Before you go to college, you must graduate high school. Before you get a masters degree you must complete an undergraduate program. Society realizes this. I don’t know where “everyone is equal if you pass the NAHI test” comes from.

State requirements not only expect you to take and pass the entry level examination, they require continuing education and some require previous experience before setting out on your own. Taking the test is step one in a multi-step process. It does not make you an instantaneous home inspector upon completion.

The only validity in holding a license is that if two home inspectors show up and one has a license and one does not, you may want to ask yourself “why?”. Why should you ask this? Because taking the test is step one in the process of becoming a professional of a given field. It’s quite possible that someone working for an electrician can come work on your electrical system, who does not have a license and do an adequate job. Maybe even a better job than some licensed electricians. However, in the clients “screening process” someone who has not taken the time or energy to complete the licensing prerequisites and continue to maintain this license should be considered further. It’s the client’s choice to take a chance on the qualifications of the person conducting the job.

None of us should assess the qualifications of our home inspector because they have a piece of paper hanging on the wall. When I was in the doctor’s office last week I got to sit and look at all the paper hanging on his wall before I met him. A very impressive show! A highly decorated former military medical doctor practicing on every continent of the world! It wasn’t until I asked him the first question, and evaluated his response that I felt comfortable having him as my primary physician. It wasn’t because of the school he went to, or his life experiences but his ability to answer my question in a way that I could understand and was comfortable with. He asked me several times if I understood the concept after he answered my questions (ensuring that I understood the technical answer in layman’s terms).

In home inspection, this is of paramount importance! It’s not what you know, where you’ve been, how much education you have. It’s about your ability to communicate with your client and others to achieve the goal of your client.

It’s not always about what you know but your ability “to find out”.

Steven,

Pay attention to this last line.
Very often new home inspectors come here and expect every answer to their questions to be answered for them when they can conduct a simple search of this website or the Internet to achieve the answer (or go back to their basic home inspection course and look up the obvious answer). Some of the more experienced veterans here tend to get a little short at times with their answers because the subject has been discussed to death and the person asking the question does not even go to the section of the message board to see if something about the subject is there. Some of the guys and gals here have been here for many years and have read virtually every post on the board. After a long day of work, there is a tendency to become sarcastic to seemingly simple questions (in their perspective). Some inspectors are just butt holes! That comes with the Internet.

So just jump in there with thick skin and engage in discussion.
In your most recent membership period, you have only made .25 posts per day. Hardly enough interaction to consider “leaving INACHI” because of some message board posts.

Once again…those who are in the business of selling tests and courses and use legislation as a marketing tool…have made untested and illogical claims that they have been able to quantify home inspection skills and reduce them to paper.

The latest claims being made by these carpetbaggers are taking place in the state of Kansas.

Work with me, here, David. Understand these critical and pivotal points. Kansas has no state building code…nor does it have a state standard for qualifying an electrician, a plumber, or an HVAC mechanic.

Are you with me?

Now, tell me how the NHIE’s testing an inspector on the knowledge of the need for a 42" handrail is relevant in a state that does not require, nor considers it a defect, for a handrail to be 25" high? Then, tell me how this test which is alleged to be psychometrically accurate, can predict David Anderson’s success as an inspector in Kansas because he knows that a handrail everywhere else but in his state should be 42" high.

After you have stumbled your way through that, tell me how the consumer is served when they have to use an unlicensed contractor who is not required to apply any minimum basic standards in his work and who will not be inspected by an AHJ when he is through…to remediate the issues that are addressed in David Anderson’s inspection report?

Now…everyone knows that the basic appeal to licensing laws to home inspectors is the idea that they discourage people from entering the field and competing against existing inspectors because of additional built-in expenses. Kansas has done this with the ridiculous idea of mandatory pre-licensing training.

Please lay out for us an 80 hour curriculum for home inspectors who will be working in a state that has no standard building code, no standard contractor licensing, and no AHJs to enforce any standard at all.

In a home where the builder is allowed to do whatever he wishes…in a house that is being sold “as is”…where there are no standards published by the state that apply to the building of or present condition of the house…what is a defect?

No state that refuses to establish minimum standards for builders and contractors can effectively regulate inspectors. No vendor has created a test or a course that has proven to indicate any increase in the propensity for success of a home inspector…especially in environments described in this post.

Are you fathoming, yet?

There are always exceptions BUT, as a rule passing the TEST doesn’t qualify you for much of anything. It simply indicates you passed a Test.

Yes James, I understand your perception.

I have nothing to say about your so-called “carpetbaggers”.
I cannot help that you are so upset about someone making a living selling “bogus” home inspection testing. This type of thing happens all the time. Actually, home inspection could be considered in the same category. Are we just complaining about deficiencies that have no real merit? Yes, very often. I don’t support this practice either.

Welcome Steve.

Nick posts all sorts of inflammatory crap all the time here, to drum up debate, which gets more eyes on His message Board, and increases His income. :mrgreen:

James lives in an area of the country where NO PROFESSIONAL at all holds a License, at least that is how he tell it. So James wonders why he, as a HI needs to have a License.

Try not to ask the same question over and over and over again and you will be fine. ;):smiley:

PS, get yourself some sort of code book relating to your specific geographic area of the country. :wink:

Mr. Anderson has related more closely than most to my point. Nick and Mr. Bushart has their own opinions set and I will have to respect that, SO,
What I am to understand is that the NHIE Exam is a entry level exam for Newbies,
and the majority of NACHI Veteran Inspectors feels that NACHI should not train Newbies for the entry level testing. Then why do you accept us for membership?
As far as me only posting .25 posts per day, I was wanting to learn and ask questions as needed, not get into a P!ss!ng contest when I do ask a question that is important to me, like this.