You know what, Wolf? That’s a darn good question and one that I don’t have an answer for. It has been discussed, but I think it’s one of those things that kind of got pushed to the back burner without a resolution. I’ll get an answer back as soon as possible.
Bill Mullen
Bill,
thank you for your reply. I would think that some form of provission should be set in place to accomodate the scenario I outlined. I would apprciate if you could find some kind of answer for me.
Best regards
Wolf
The two-tier fee idea is fraught with danger, as the case just mentioned shows. The worst thing is that it gives the impression that CAHPI members are somehow ‘special.’ Why not just set one price for all and have done with it?
Bill, Of those hundreds of complaints to insurance companies…how many of those do you think are bonified/legitimate complaints. If most of them are anything like some of the ones I’ve had, they wouldn’t even make it to a court or trial. They are just dilution ed home buyers that got an inspection and figured they shouldn’t have to spend any money on repair & maintenance on a home thats 30 to 50 years old, or when Mike Holmes ripped the drywall off the walls and found mold,…well why didn’t my home inspector see this?:roll: As you well know, unfounded complaints are probably the MAJORITY.
And just for prospective, it would be nice to know if those “hundreds” of complaints were out of tens of thousands…hundreds of thousands…a million?? of total home inspections actually performed.
You also mentioned something about not having to join this National certification. This is all fine and dandy, but RUMOR has it, that the Realtors and their associations are calling for certification of some kind and are going to require that anyone doing an inspection for a Realtor sold home is going to have to have this certification or they won’t allow it? If this is the case, then the statement about not having to join would not be an accurate statement, correct? We have to inspect to earn a living and if cut out of Realtor controlled sales. I doubt anyone could live off FSBO listings.
If National Certification becomes mandatory, would it mean I would be out of my full time way of earning a living, if I don’t swallow all this. As far as I know, that’s unconstitutional. Do you think the courts will back this if hundreds of home inspectors decide to buck this. The association will need every cent of the money they collect just to pay court costs and our wages /income we lose because they shut us down. This smells a whole lot like the GUN REGISTRY scandal…a good idea on paper and to the bureaucrats but just a HUGE waste of time and MILLIONS of DOLLARS of our taxpayers monies AGAIN.
I for one say, let the private Market place dictate our future. They will do it much quicker, and for a whole lot less money. If your a lousy inspector you’ll be out of business real quick, one way or the other.(either no business, or they’ll sue you for everthing youv’e got) If your a good inspector, you’ll flourish and be in business for as many years as you want.
Did I understand you correctly, that the gov’t has already thrown a **million **dollars towards this certification…:shock: I guess that supports my GUN REGISTRY theory.
No disrespect directed to you personally Bill, This is just my personal feelings to wards a gov’t backed/one association, rule and cure the worlds problems type of idea. I don’t think it will work, I don’t think the courts will back the intrusion into already practicing home inspectors life styles. It’s just another form of dictatorship to an association who themselves got into the game in its infancy and intends on sneaking in before most of even know whats happening or going on. If they think it’s warming up now, see what happens when all of a sudden every home inspector across the country gets a letter stating they have to comply to this new law that most had little to do with or maybe haven’t even heard of yet.
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I also read that a structural engineer and a Realtor would be judging your performance…a Realtor:roll: …thats absurd to say the least. The only person that should be overseeing these on site tests should be a HOME INSPECTOR with many, many years under his belt or a retired home inspector, something along those lines.
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Darrel:
The engineer (I never said he was structural engineer, you added that) and realtor have nothing to do with the site tests or judging your performance. They sit on a committee that looks at the curriculums offered by course providers and they help compare those courses to the National Occupational Standards.
The ONLY people who will be Examiners for the TIPR’s (Site tests as you call them) will be experienced, respected Home Inspectors. Some, as you say, are retired or semi-retired inspectors with many years of experience. Therefore, it’s exactly what you wanted.
Bill Mullen
Thank-you for clearing that one up…that is a relief.
Bill, humor me for just a minute here and put yourself in our position (paid members in the largest home inspection association on the planet, NACHI). someone comes along from another association and implies that they are calling the shots from here on in, don’t you think the hair on the back of you’re neck would be standing on end. It just doesn’t smell right. We paid our dues to the organization we felt was the best, just as those did that belong to CAHPI, and now we are being penalized by paying higher rates for certification because we don’t belong the “right” organization. I don’t care how polite you say it, it just doesn’t cut it.
I would like to see your response to my previous post as well if you wouldn’t mind.
What is the annual fee to maintain NCH status once achieved?
You are entitled to your opinion, but I totally disagree with you. However, I am not here to debate, so leave it at that.
Bill Mullen
Bill said:
**The certification is designed to be 100 % voluntary. Nobody is forced to take it. However, if the public and realtors realize that their chances of getting a competent inspector improve by hiring a National Certifcate Holder, I think it would make sense to apply for certification. If governments decide to license us and make it mandatory, that’s beyond my sphere of influence.
I don’t think the above opinion would apply to someone in Oahi who is an RHI. I feel that Oahi has a very good system. The National Cert. for an OAHI member is really irrelevent, it can’t supercede RHI in Ontario. I think this is a misconception by many in OAHI.
****I guess we’ll have to disagree on that. The TIPR program is proving that there are too many people doing inspections who shouldn’t be doing them and that reflects on all of us and does a disservice to the public.
But that is what OAHI is suppose to be doing with its members ensuring they are competent. Obviously its not. Many in OAHI who are reviewed via TIPR and fail because they are lousy or shouldn’t be inspecting can go right back to doing what they are doing in Oahi because they are members of OAHI. Certification does not weed out bad inspectors who already belong to an association. Whats wrong with this picture folks? Think about it.
**
Bill Mullen
Ray - would it be fair and correct to say that regardless of naming associations - those that fail the TIPR are still inspecting. The TIPR’s are not intended to disqualify inspectors from their livelihood - however - perhaps it should give that individual food for thought about their potential vulnerability.
Bill said
**I guess we’ll have to disagree on that. The TIPR program is proving that there are too many people doing inspections who shouldn’t be doing them and that reflects on all of us and does a disservice to the public.
How can you come to that conclusion based on one hundred participants with less than that number actually certified?
**
It has been set at $ 50 per year for CAHPI association members and $ 100. per year for non-CAHPI members. Since there won’t be any renewals until this time next year, those figures could change.
The difference will cover extra costs involved in administration. The educational credits for members will be easily done through the provincial associations. Non-members won’t be nearly as easy to do.
Bill Mullen
As founder of the world’s largest inspection trade association I can assure you all that nearly all poorly performed inspections are performed by competent inspectors.
Verifying that an inspector *CAN *do something right does not assure anyone that he/she WILL do something right. MADD says that nearly all drunk drivers passed their driver’s exam.
Bill
I wasn’t trying to imply that OAHI members had failed. Even if they didn’t the possibility exists.
Also,
**Since CAHPI Ontario has submitted their documentation for an equivalency evaluation, if the RHI is equal to or higher in requirements to the NCP, it will be simple for RHI members to get certified. However, the National Certificate Holder status is not meant to replace or supercede any other certification. **
**
Thats funny, if its not meant to replace or supercede I fail to see why anyone would want it. Particularly a OAHI Member or other seasoned inspector say in Ashi, or Nachi fwiw.
**
Furthermore, our own SOP exam shows that there is a direct inverse correlation between the number of years an inspector is in business and how well he/she understands the SOP and follows it.
New inspectors know only how to do things the way they were taught. Veterans have their own thinking.
How do the SOP show that there is a direct inverse correlation between the number of years an inspector is in business and how well he/she understands the SOP and follows it?
Schools that use our SOP exam (and there are many) report the same thing. The inspectors who are actively working don’t follow the SOP as well as a newbie does.
Same is true with REALTORs. Veteran REALTORs get in all the trouble with not having all the consumer disclosures signed because they think it is a pain. New agents follow procedures much better because they don’t have enough experience to think they can cut corners.
There is a reason a newer home inspector spends 4.5 hours on a job… they’re doing a more thorough, albeit less experienced, inspection.
Insecurity about one’s own abilities is a good thing sometimes.
I’ll tell you something else too. The average number of continuing education hours that an inspector takes decreases when you mandate continuing education through licensing.
You see, once licensing is adopted, everyone just takes the minimum ce hours and only those one’s approved. Advanced courses or courses outside the SOP (unapproved) are only popular up until approved courses become mandated.
NACHI recently had the President of the SC Board of REALTORs speak at a NACHI chapter meeting I attended and he told us all that the number of ce hours taken by REALTORs on average dropped to 1/2 after the Board adopted mandatory and approved continuing ed.