They need to pick one, and I heard they had. Inspect appliances unless your client says not to and then, put it on the report.
Per 61-30.809, (3j), inspector not required to confirm operation of every control or feature of a system or appliance
That provision is so you don’t have to check say, the cleaning cycle on the range, every cycle on the dishwasher, washing machine, dryer etc. As for the disposal, put ice in it and turn it on. If there is no ice, then run water through it. Before doing that, take a look inside to make sure there are blades on it.
Not in all instances. For instance, meany retaining walls are for flower beds or decorative and have nothing to do with the actual structure.
E & O isn’t a requirement now. To perform a WDO inspection you need something else besides a home inspectors licence. That is self explanatory, as are most of the others. And in order to provide a warranty, you have to hold an insurance license. There are your laws right there. We don’t need to re-invent the wheel here.
Mike, if you are afraid of doing those things, I suspect your inspection report will read something like this:
Items excluded: EveryTHIing…Reason: InspeCTor was scared of bREaking anything or flooding the HomE, or burning down the home, or injuring HIMSELF.
Not in all instances. For instance, meany retaining walls are for flower beds or decorative and have nothing to do with the actual structure.
a retaining wall is a soil stabilization device. It does not matter if it is full of flowers or attached to the house. This requirement is located in the grounds section of the SOP. If it holds back soils, it is a retaining wall. Are we supposed to dig into the slope to see if it has proper tie-backs or dig down to the foundation to see if it was properly engineered to be self-supporting? What if it is a retaining wall connected to a dock or sea wall? It is an engineering issue and should be deleted entirely. I exclude all retaining walls in my contracts but a lawyer will say I didn’t exclude it properly and the client did not understand, I was supposed to include a PE report of the retaining wall in my $325 house inspection.
They need to pick one, and I heard they had. Inspect appliances unless your client says not to and then, put it on the report
confusing. how do you check part of an appliance? and, how do you account for the time to check the whole thing? Our responsibility should end with the breaker - it trips or not.
Are you telling me, that we have a certified general contractor who doesn’t know how to operate basic appliances?:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
As to the time, it depends on how you do your inspection.
When I start on the inside, I start all the appliances and the heat as I go around opening up all the blinds or just my first basic walk through the home. Then I remove the electric panel. I put the panel on with two bolts and shut off the heat. By that time the washing machine has filled and is washing, the dryer is up to temperature and I put the cover on with all the bolts for the electric panel.
As I continue the inspection, eventually, I get to the kitchen where I check the range, refrigerator, and disposal.
Before I go in the attic, I check the washing machine for the auto spin cycle stop and to make sure it has drained. I also check the dryer.
After I come out of the attic, we all meet in the kitchen and before I go over the findings, I check the dishwasher to make sure it has drained and the soap door has released.
It takes little to no extra time.
Again, we are not re-inventing the wheel here.
I honestly can’t believe I am having this conversation. Maybe it is because I have been inspecting appliances since day one and even before I started my company.
As to your retaining wall question, is the footer visible?
I had read and understand the questions and as before they are valid questions.
Here is the situation we are under and I will do as the majority says for the chapter. I am only one of four votes and will try and do as you guys want.
It was presented to me that without the approved SOP and Rules we continue to be attacked by every other profession wanting to muscle in on our small piece of turf. With the SOP and rules in tact then we can go forth, be better protected and then change the changes needed later as long as there was nothing MAJOR in the SOP.
Seeing things as I do now (landscapers trying to find loop holes in opur professiona and actually getting it in the mold license.) I see the need for as much protection as possible.
So do we adopt it and change later, or wait another year or two and make changes to the SOP and Rules now? If we challenge the SOP and Rules, which we can, it will take at LEAST one year to get them approved. I am your voice, you speak and I shall convey…
I think you should let the SoP go through and just make some changes like typos and the appliance issue, yes or no to appliances.
The biggest issue that I see, is that everyone has had plenty of time to get a home inspection license. As of July this year or June, whenever it is, that is it. Anyone wishing to perform home inspections needs to get the license.
The Code of Ethics also needs to be put in place.
Those are two items that need to be put in place now.
I think you are crazy and full of it if you think you will be able to change anything after the fact.
Get it right or do not have it in place. I know you are not in charge of it. I am speaking to whoever is.
REPEAL LICENSING then only those with real references or actual experience will be getting the work. If some fool hires a guy without checking references then it is his own fault. Due Diligence.
The economy is more likely to thrive with LESS regulation.
Make the SOP as vague as possible then advertise your own that shows how great you are.
This should be a basic as possible. We should not be telling people what or how to do things. It should be guidelines only.
WAKE-UP
YOU ALL HAVE SCREWED UP BY LETTING THIS HAPPEN. DO NOT CONTINUE TO OVER REGULATE YOURSELVES IT DOES YOU NO GOOD.
(11) These Standards of Practice are not intended to limit inspectors from:
(a) Including other inspection services, in addition to those required by these Standards of Practice.
(b) Specifying repairs, provided the inspector is appropriately qualified and willing to do so.
(c) Excluding systems and components from the inspection if agreed upon by the inspector and client.
All of you that are complaining about the SoP, the above is your “out”.
I’m not proposing to “challenge it” but I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, some language could be cleaned up prior to adoption, such as appliances. Personally, I don’t care if HI’s check appliances - I do if the client requests or they are not attending the inspection. It is the poor language I would like to see corrected. If it takes a legislative act to fix conflicting language, work on it next year.
Eric, you don’t even know me and we have never spoken to my knowledge so take your childish insults elsewhere. by the way, looking at a footer does absolutely nothing for an HI to certify a retaining wall so what is your oven checking point? 18 years checking ovens and now you are a structural expert - not
To me, appliances, like minor drywall holes, interior paint, carpet and other things which have absolutely no bearing on the performance or safety of the home are a distraction to the type of inspection I desire to provide. Personally, I would never start a dishwasher and leave it unattended while I check something else as I do not know the condition of the supply lines or the drainage - which would put me at risk if it floods and ruins the cabinetry or flooring. to each, his own. I do not even like to turn a dishwasher on for that reason. If I turn on the burners and they glow hot in seconds, great - but what does it prove? Does the oven come on - great but does it prove the temperature is calibrated to the dial - no. Like I said, to each his own and I’m not critizing those HI’s who routinely do this service. I just don’t think it needs to be established by law as it has nothing to do with our primary responsibility to the client.
It’s not the service I am arguing about - its whether or not it needs to be mandatory under law. Again, I say no to that.
No problem. There is an “out” for those that don’t want to inspect appliances.
It is just that you have to present that option to your client. So the law, really isn’t the law.
I check the interior temperature of the oven. I think it is mandatory in Texas. I also check the temperatures of the refrigerator and freezer.
I also carry at least four large towels just in case. There have been a few occasions where something has leaked, but I was able to clean it up and no damage was done.
I personally think the risk is very minimal. Over 10,000 inspections and if I remember correctly, five water related incidents. I am not worried.
Michael and William, thanks for taking the time for your input and I agree there is some stuff that needs tweeking and FABI is along the same lines as well after emailing Bob Farr. It is truely a great thing that you are active in what is going on, that is all I have for guideance. I really appreciate it!
I personally think the risk is very minimal. Over 10,000 inspections and if I remember correctly, five water related incidents. I am not worried.
I understand, Eric and I’m not arguing your point. I drove down the same stretch of road, almost daily, for 12 years, without incident, until the accident. If you choose to run the DW is one thing - its your inspection and your risk. If the law says you do it, its another and it increases your risk and in todays market, its risk without compensation. Just my opinion.
I turned the water on a house Monday - foreclosure. Met the city water tech at the house. Missing DW so I put the hose in the sink. Sink piping leaked so I turned the water off and cleaned up the water. tightened up the sink plumbing to try to get a decent inspection. had the HO stand at the kitchen sink holding the DW supply line in the drain. All is well. Found other leaks in 2nd bath/toilet. Turned water off and said that is about as close as we can get for now and cleaned up mess. Later, went in attic and found improper repair to PEX piping which was leaking. Point is, we take enough risk as it is. So in the DW scenario, its running its cycle, you find these leaks, you have to turn the DW off, turn the water supply off to the house, what happens to the water in the DW? Or forget about the leaks, the DW won’t drain (clogged), what happens to the water?
this is the process my brain takes anytime the gov’t tells me I have to do something. LOL
Michael and William, thanks for taking the time for your input and I agree there is some stuff that needs tweeking and FABI is along the same lines as well after emailing Bob Farr. It is truely a great thing that you are active in what is going on, that is all I have for guideance. I really appreciate it!
Russ
You’re welcome, Russ and I appreciate your time in this. I say again, the SOP is extremely important to our profession and I only wish the various association reps had taken a little more time to get input from the inspectors before it was floated as a draft. (I’m not referring to your effort as the draft was the draft before you came on board). Each association has glaring incongruities in their respective SOP’s such as appliances, retaining walls, etc and it would have been nice if each had taken a moment to clean it up rather than insert their association language into the SOP carte blanche.
I would like to commend the committee for two distinct and most specific actions in the SOP :
No warranty or guarantee provision
No WDO, mold, pest, pollutant, etc. guarantee.
I’m not sure how many inspectors realize just how important this is to preventing a nuisance lawsuit - you should be VERY GRATEFUL. According to my atty, this is huge.
So, if I have to say, Yep, the oven turns on, glows bright red, and read 180degF after 27 seconds in return for being judgment proof - so be it. Nah, I want the appliance thing thrown out too - LOL
Regardless of our ridiculous feud, Russell, I support and appreciate your help in this and recognize you are trying to help all.
I want to make one more point about the state SOP:
Assuming it is adopted (which I understand looks likely), we will now have a true standard of practice for all inspectors regardless of their participation in InterNACHI, ASHI, FABI or others. Our SOP will be in accordance to FS468 and specifically 61-30.801-813. It will not be in accordance to any association SOP. I don’t want to get into how an association SOP may include or exceed the state SOP. Point is, there is an opportunity here to bring all inspectors together to work on improving the profession as a truly collective body, sans association allegiance. Folks can still have their business roundtables, sell software/education or marketing strategies, etc. We have a seamless opportunity to develop one cohesive group for the sole purpose of enacting legislative changes to secure the profession without the current splinter group process.
Why don’t we look to the current committee/group/board, or whatever they are, regardless of their association, and ask each HI in the state to adopt that committee for one year or maybe two years, contribute $25.00 to that board (need to make it legal if it isn’t, I don’t know) to develop an improvement plan for qualifications, education, testing, etc. Throw out the splinter groups altogether. Most seem to agree the current group has proven themselves and the SOP shows it (albeit it needs editing).
Russell, I would appreciate your consideration of this proposal and given support, I would appreciate your presentation of this concept to the committee/board/group (what are they?).
In either event, it is an opportunity to put politics/feuds/jealousies and the like aside and enact some real positive change for the profession. We can all argue on our respective association MB’s while someone is actually doing something good in the background.