Neutral and Ground on same buss

Originally Posted By: bwiley
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I need a little help from one of the resident sparkies. This picture was taken yesterday morning of the neutral buss in an exterior located Sylvania panel. The Neutral and Ground wires are tied to the same buss, some of which are double tapped in the same slot, even though other slots are plainly visible. I know this is incorrect. The house was built in 1974.


The problem with this is that all of the houses that I have inspected in this neighborhood are wired this way. Was this incorrect at the time? Did they just have a lazy or bad sparky contractor?

The question I get from the Agents and Sellers is "It's been this way since the house was built, so why are you picking on it now?"

I simply reported and referred to a "qualified licensed electrician".


http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/electricissue.jpg

Thanks for your help and comments.

Blaine


Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek
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Blaine…


Need more info...is this panel a Main panel or a subpanel? Is there a disconnect located on the outside anywhere or perhaps at the meter?


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This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Dennis,


This is the main panel for the house. 150 amps, hot side all looked normal. It is located about 12" to the left of the meter, which is fed in at the top right of the panel box.

There was a 60 amp sub panel located in the laundry room, wired the same way.

Blaine


Originally Posted By: sam jones
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Blaine:


If this is a service entrance panel and it sounds like it is then you are ok. The main breaker is 150 amps? It does have one? Any other means of disconnect?
This sounds ok unless we dont have all the info. I am curious as to what led you to believe this is a problem. The sub panel in the laundry sounds like a problem though. Those grounds and neutrals should be isolated so no neutral current cannot flow back on groundwires, conduits, enclosures etc. Bonding of neutrals to ground occurrs at the service entrance point. If this is that point then it should be fine. Ground rod present? If so that wire should be easy to follow. If not, then one should be driven...


Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Sam,


what led me to percieve a problem was that almost all of the neutral and ground wires are double and triple tapped onto the same buss while nothing but the ground wire to the water system was connected to the ground bar. The sub panel in the laundry room which was added later (apparently) was the same way, which I know is incorrect.

Blaine


Originally Posted By: dvalley
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Blaine,


I started a huge forum on this particular topic already. I started off by asking about double lugging in a SE panel and it turned out to be a very informative thread on doubling up on any wire in the SE. Lots of very important information regarding double taps and double lugs.
Dennis and others will explain this situation in detail at the following thread. Enjoy reading....
![](upload://vbkeyn3G7biL3DvC7XiJNLnBFm8.gif)
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=927


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David Valley
MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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Double lugging the neutral wires is an issue, but this is okay for the ground wires (see the post Dave mentioned).


I dont see a big issue if the ground and neutral wires go to the same buss on a main service panel ... these need to be interconnected at that point anyway. As long this is only at the main service panel, with the main service disconnect, directly after the meter.

At a panel which does not have the main service disconnect or at a subpanel, the neutral and ground buss must be separate and the neutral buss isolated from the panel. The neutral to ground connection is only done at the main service disconnect after the meter.


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Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek
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Blaine


Well you don't need my answer....David and RC already said what I would ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)


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This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.