Originally Posted By: jane molina
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Does an outlet work if the neutral is open ? explain
Jane
Does an outlet work if the neutral is open ? explain
Jane
Originally Posted By: rshumake
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Yes, the ground can replace the neutral in some appliances ,BUT definitely not recommended.
Originally Posted By: lfranklin
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What do you mean by open
Not connected
Originally Posted By: jmcginnis
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No, a 120 volt outlet will not work if the neutral (grounded conductor) is open. If an appliance still works when plugged into such an outlet then there is something very wrong with the appliance. You need a “complete” circuit for electrons to travel and that does not exist when you have an open neutral in a 120 volt circuit. You will still have a live (ungrounded conductor) at that outlet and it will still measure 120 volts to ground so it is still very dangerous. Why the question?
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Jack,
The circuit and receptacle will still function with an open neutral, provided a ground is connected to the box.
--
Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Originally Posted By: jmcginnis
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Joe… you will have to explain to me how that is possible, please… thanks…
Originally Posted By: jane molina
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Why the ? I plugged in a circut tester into my home and it read open neutral
and I have not tried the outlet since because I don’t know what will happen?
Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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I knew that was coming…–
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC
Search the directory for a Wisconsin Home Inspector
Originally Posted By: jmcginnis
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Well, barring any other problems with the wiring, the appliance just won’t work. At least according to my understanding of electrical theory.
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Without a neutral (which is really not a neutral in this case, but we will call it that for this discussion) there is only a hot and a ground.
If the appliance or light does not have its neutral ground faulted ground, the appliance or light Will not work.
If, however, the neutral on the appliance or light is ground faulted to ground, then it will work, but work dangerously. But, that would apply to a properly wired outlet with a neutral if the neutral were also ground faulted to ground, just not quite as bad.
--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson
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Does the idea of nuetral current flowing on an uninsulated equipment ground sound like a good idea? For God’s sake don’t use a receptacle with an open ground!!!
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Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Is this receptacle on a GFCI downstream leg?
Isn’t this one of the indications you saw with those “bad” gfcis?
If so I would trip and reset the GFCI a couple times and see if it gets better.
Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson
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I’m going to expand on my first post. Lets say I plug a skill saw (or whatever) into this open nuetral receptacle with a ground as the return path (instead of the nuetral). I pull the trigger and it draws 5 amps on the hot. It must then return those same 5 amps back on the nuetral all the way back to the source (transformer). If I use a ground for this purpose, I have 5 amps going back on the ground, and also every metal object that the unisulated equipment ground is touching!
Again, please don't bootleg a nuetral by using the ground. It is a very unsafe practice that will someday end up hurting someone. 
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Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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Lets say I plug a skill saw (or whatever) into this open nuetral receptacle with a ground as the return path (instead of the nuetral). I pull the trigger and it draws 5 amps on the hot. It must then return those same 5 amps back on the nuetral all the way back to the source (transformer).
I thought most of the amps were used / lost at the saw, with only the unused portion returning down the neutral (inefficiency). Not so?
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Mr Kirchoff teaches us that the current that enters a circuit has to come out somewhere. It isn’t “used up”.
Inefficiency in a motor is basically energy that escapes as heat and not kinetic work. That can be heating in the motor or heating in the wire.
When you take that concept to an incandecent light bulb you can understand why they are so inefficient. It is basically a space heater that emits some light.
Originally Posted By: jmcginnis
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Ryan…
. if you plug in that skill saw and have an open neutral the skill saw will not work… someone would have to physically connect the ground wire to the silver screw on the receptacle to complete the circuit through the grounding conductor… it will not happen automatically just because the neutral becomes “open” somehow. The grounding conductor (ground) and the grounded conductor (neutral) are physically separate on each device. I have seen electricians intentionally jumper the silver and green screws on receptacles in circuits without a grounding conductor, to fool the inspector when he just uses a plug in tester.
Brian...
Greg is correct... in any circuit whatever amps go in to the load must come out .. there is no loss of amperage.. think of amperage as water over a waterwheel... all the water going in, goes over the wheel and turns it and all the water comes out the other side. The only difference is in AC current the water would move back and forth across the wheel at a very fast speed.
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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Don’t get shocked! Please define a “neutral” and please be very careful too!
--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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| Brian A. Goodman wrote: |
| I thought most of the amps were used / lost at the saw, with only the unused portion returning down the neutral (inefficiency). Not so? |
The current (amps) are the same at any point in the circuit, in the conductor to the saw, in the saw, and in the conductor from the saw.
Think of it as a plumbing piping to a fountain. The water flow to the fountain is the same as the water flow out of the fountain (the saw) and the same as the water flow back to the pump (the voltage supplying the force to the circuit).
--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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Thank you gentlemen. I done went an’ got some smarter again (hyuk).
Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson
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| jmcginnis wrote: |
| Ryan..
. if you plug in that skill saw and have an open neutral the skill saw will not work... someone would have to physically connect the ground wire to the silver screw on the receptacle to complete the circuit through the grounding conductor.. it will not happen automatically just because the neutral becomes "open" somehow. The grounding conductor (ground) and the grounded conductor (neutral) are physically separate on each device. |
Jack I agree. I'm just speaking theoretically on why it is a bad practice.
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Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City