Use this thread to discuss the entry New article on ventless fireplace inspection at the InterNACHI Blog
Sounds so terrifying that you should print facts concerning number of fatalities per year.
Got any such facts?
No, I don’t, but I’m glad you asked. I just threw in a line about there not being any documented cases of CO deaths caused by ventless fireplaces. I found this below at http://www.ventless-gas-fireplaces.com, although it’s obviously a biased website:
*In the United States, the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), which is charged with protecting the public from unreasonable risks of serious injury or death related to home appliances, has stated that it is not aware of any documented incident in the CPSC In-Depth Investigation (IDI) database of fatal carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning associated with an ODS-equipped ventless gas heating product.
In the United Kingdom, approximately 15 million ODS-equipped ventless units have been installed with no reported CO deaths.
Japan reports that more than 40 million units have the same outstanding safety record.*
I would love to use that article but need injury facts before scaring everyone to confirm the need for the articles use .
I do many condos and would love to have numbers to back it up.
I just did more research and it looks like there are no statistics stating that anyone has been killed by ODS-equipped ventless gas fireplaces. A lot of people are killed by CO in their homes every year, but the CPSC doesn’t do a good job of breaking down the sources of the CO.
If you have the time, read this article and the 11 comments at the bottom. It doesn’t answer your question but there’s a lot of info there. There’s certainly a discrepency between the anti-ventless hysteria and the lack of statistics saying they’ve killed a single person, and I apologize for not being able to solve it. Thanks for bringing this up though because it caused me to admit the lack of evidence in the article. If you find anything in your own research, let me know.
Rob, et al…
It is important to note that** CO** exposure does not necessarily mean death. In fact, the non-deadly symptoms of exposure may help you to determine whether your home is sick. Possible symptoms of low and mid-level exposure are:
- Headache
- Nausea
- Dizziness
- Fatigue
- Weakness
- Sleepiness
- Confusion
- Cold or flu-like symptoms
If you have a preexisting condition such as a circulatory or lung disease such as asthma or emphysema, your symptoms may be exacerbated by even very low CO exposure!
Very true James, and CO sickness probably doesn’t get reported to the CPSC. Maybe ventless fireplaces have never actually killed anyone (unlikely) but they’ve caused tens of thousands of mild to moderate cases of CO poisoning, few or none of which get reported.
There is a theory that, while still not proven, makes a lot of sense…that carbon monoxide plays a role in the deaths of many elderly people in our country. As they age, they have a tendency to spend more time indoors where low levels of CO can accumulate and make them feel bad. Doctors listen to them and prescribe pills that do no good…until they eventually die. Due to their advanced age, autopsies are rarely performed.
Well explained makes sense to me.
If I manufactured these devices I would have my lawyers send you a cease and desist.
The dissemination of information based on conjecture and hearsay along with unsupported and outright false statements is not what NACHI should be providing to the public.
A properly adjusted ventless fireplace/heater appliance with the required ODS is inherently safer than the gas stove in your kitchen on thanks giving day.
I once asked a HVAC business owner buddy to design a Ventless for one of my clients if he could and he said no way as a friends dog had died from C02 poisoning due to one of those units.
I think the stove comparison is wrong because ovens are not constantly left on for long periods the way a fireplace might be.
People do not pull the couch into the kitchen and fall asleep in front of them.
Still it would be nice to have statistics as every year I hear multiple stories of how people die from using stoves and ovens for heat.
I guess you’d also have to go after the CDC, EPA, ALA, CPSC, HUD and various other organizations that have said far worse things than what I said. You’d have to go after the states and countries, too, that have banned these appliances.
But I don’t think it’s conjecture, anyway. And unless the stove is accidentally left on, it’s pretty well-monitored and generally not used for long periods of time, in contrast to a fireplace that people leave on all night while sleeping.
People who use gas stoves for heat can suffer from CO poisoning, as well.
Something tells me that somebody recently invested in a gas fireplace and doesn’t appreciate the challenge to his judgment.
They are unsafe and illegal in some areas.
HVAC business owner should not be designing anything.
Go read my post againg .
This time all the way to the end.
Residential ventless heaters are not intended for anything except supplemental heat.
The article is full of conjecture inaccuracies and untrue statements.
NACHI can do much better.
Jim you are not one to go on heresy.
Please provide stats that back up your emotion.
When you have a few hours, check this out.
121 documented instances of CO poisoning and damage to the home from 1998 to June 2010.
Pretty convincing to me.
That site is hardly reputable Jim.
They are anecdotal stories.
The kind that sell you extends on late nite TV.:roll::roll:
WTF…You trying to blind me?
Seriously the guy must be wearing aluminum foil on his head that wrote that cause I need to print the screen and B/W the thing first.
I see according to the CA state senate not one single death has been proven as of yet.
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/95-96/bill/sen/sb_0751-0800/sb_798_cfa_960229_143655_sen_floor.html
I am trying hard to believe this myself but still want proof.
That the issue Bob.
There is no credible documented “proof”