Originally Posted By: dedwards This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe.
Do they not have county inspectors that do the periodic inspections during the contruction phases to halt this kind of nonsense. Where I live they would have stopped construction and had alot of the discrepancies torn out and corrected before they could proceed (and put on notice that further evidence of non-code complience could halt construction all together. Thanks, I always learn a lot from your posts and questions always gets me either to thinking or into the books. Keep up the good work.
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jtedesco wrote:
"some will insist that the world is square no matter what you say" and this is crap is OK in some areas, and in some cases it is the son of the inspector, or son of a #$%@! who gets away with murder!
What do you see here as getting away with murder?
With all the pictures you have of some truly dangerous installations this one is minor.
Originally Posted By: rrushing This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintanied all arund electrical equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment in accordance with this section and Figure E3305.1.
E3305.2 Working clearances for energized equipment and panelboards. Except as otherwise specified in Chapter 33 through 42, the dimension of the working space in the direction of access to panelboards and live parts likely to reqire examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall be not less than 36 inches (914mm) in depth. Distances shall be measured from the energized parts where such parts are exposed or from the enclosure front or opening where such parts are enclosed. In addition to the 36-inch dimension (914mm), the work space shall not be less than 30 inches (762mm) wide in front of the electrical equipment and not less than the width of such equipment. The work space shall be clear and shall extend from the floor or platform to a height of 6.5 feet (1981 mm). In all cases, the work space shall allow at least a 90-degree opening of equipment doors or hinged panels. Equipment associated with the electrical installation located above or below the electrical equipment shall be permitted to extend not more than 6 inches (152 mm) beyond the front of the equipment.
Originally Posted By: ssmith3 This post was automatically imported from our archived forum. Joe, is that a PRV with a Valve in front of it on the bottom of the tank??
– Scott Smith
Marinspection
Vice President NorCal NACHI Chapter
I graduated from collage. Now my life is all mixed up.
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jtedesco wrote:
Bob:
Minor or not, this picture already received an excellent reply from a Home Inspector who saw a real problem!
Me, I see access violations to the pull box, and the LB.
We need a space that will allow a minimum of 30 inches in width, and three feet in front.
Joe there is not a section in the NEC that requires 30 inches in width, and three feet in front of junction boxes, LBs, pull cans etc.
Here is the section for conduit bodies.
Quote:
314.29 Boxes and Conduit Bodies to Be Accessible.
Boxes and conduit bodies shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building or, in underground circuits, without excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that is to be used to establish the finished grade.
Here is the NEC definition of accessible.
Quote:
Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.
Richard The NEC has similar language in 110.26 but that does not apply to junction boxes.
It can be applied to the well pump contactor but that is a call for the local AHJ to decide if the well pump contactor will need to be worked on live.
Lets not go crazy with 110.26 as far as junction boxes, if we decide junction boxes need to comply with 110.26 we have a real problem.
The junction boxes on recessed lighting, dishwashers, garbage disposals, etc. would all be violations.
As to the missing cover you can plainly see that the cover is sitting on top of the JB and a large coil of wire is on the floor coming from the JB. This looks like something that is still being worked on. If it is not still being worked on it would be worth putting in the inspection report.
jfarsetta wrote:
Joe T,
You can not simply brush off the fact that some things are accepted by AHJs in certain areas. That is not a realistic stance for any responsible home inspector to take. We are not code enforcement officials.
I could not agree more, an HI is going to have a tough time trying to remain credible calling out violations that have just recently passed a inspection by the AHJ.
Most AHJs do not like being questioned by people that are not truly experts in the code.
Finally
jtedesco wrote:
Thanks Richard, come on back and tell us more so that we can educate some of those here who are "full of numbers" and have no real inspection experience anyway!! 
I would guess Joe means me, and he is 100% correct. I have never been an electrical inspector or a home inspector, not once. I have also never taught a code class. I have never claimed to do any of those things.
While some have been locked away in a classroom I have been out in the real world running electrical work for just about 20 years. I have had to get inspected many times. Considering I have only failed inspections a couple of times I think I have enough experience to express my views as to what passes and what does not.
Originally Posted By: jtedesco This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The items mentioned by some Home Inspectors here are a good reason to make note of the conditions that would fall against the installer if the courts were involved.
Originally Posted By: jtedesco This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The “Time Clock” is also “equipment” and should be considered when inspecting this type of work.
Quote:
Equipment. A general term including material, fittings, devices, appliances, luminaires (fixtures), apparatus, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.
AHJ
Quote:
Authority Having Jurisdiction. The organization, office, or individual responsible for approving equipment, materials, an installation, or a procedure.
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jtedesco wrote:
The "Time Clock" is also "equipment" and should be considered when inspecting this type of work.
Quote:
Equipment. A general term including material, fittings, devices, appliances, luminaires (fixtures), apparatus, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.
I do not see a time clock I see a contactor for the well pump, it makes no difference as both are definitely equipment, so are a NM connectors, duplex outlets and wirenuts. Would you say a any of those items needs 30" x 36" working space?
All electric equipment falls under this.
Quote:
110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment.
Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electric equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment. Enclosures housing electrical apparatus that are controlled by lock and key shall be considered accessible to qualified persons.
Encarta defines Sufficient as Enough, as much as is needed.
There is enough space for me to get to the LBs and JBs and I am a big guy.
Some equipment will need the additional space requirements of 110.26(A)(1),(2) and (3) if the AHJ determines that equipment is likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized .
I have never seen anyone but Joe T try to apply 110.26(A)(1),(2) and (3) to conduit bodies and pull boxes. 
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jtedesco wrote:
Let's continue.
Besides the apparent lack of cable support, where is the disconnect for the electric water heater?
Well we agree partly here, there is no question the cable needs some support.
As far as the disconnect, the breaker may be in sight we do not know.
Or the breaker may be capable of being locked off again we do not know.
I have seen a number of pictures on NACHI that show breakers equipped with a means to lock them off. I think many ECs are realizing a breaker locking device is cheaper than a disconnect at the appliance.
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jtedesco wrote:
but the real issues are the way in which someone with have to gain access to the conductors in a box, or in some other piece of equipment such as a conduit body or "LB" to be able to have the proper clearance.
Again, minor but worth some consideration on behalf of the installer and anyone who designs an electrical system.
Joe we agree here I would rather work 'easy' than work 'hard' but common courtesy does not come under the NECs scope.
I have to often change ballasts on recessed metal halide light fixtures, the only access is up through the trim of the light. Some times this hole is as little as 4"OD. When you do this you have to make choices do you want your right hand, left hand in the hole or would you like to be able to see the wiring. You can not do more than one of those things at a time. Clearly the code considerer's that sufficient space and I have to agree because I get it done. I do not like it and I usually end up with cuts on my hands.
The pull can and the LBs are more accessible than many things that pass inspection every day.
Let's face it choosing the trades as a line of work means you will have to bend, crawl, hang by your heels and climb to get to the work. You can not just walk up to everything. 
