Originally Posted By: bemelander
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You never know what lives in there. Also my first FPE panel in two years.
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Anchor Home Inspections
bill@anchorinspections.com
You never know what lives in there. Also my first FPE panel in two years.
bill@anchorinspections.com
Originally Posted By: Jeffrey Wortham
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Makes me wonder if that connection is loose and warming up. Sure seems to be an attraction to those ladybugs!
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi to all,
I had the same thoughts about maybe a sourse of heat there as I can't see otherwise what the attraction would be (unless they are plugging their little TV's in in there   )
Regards
Gerry
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Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466
Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com
"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: James D Mosier
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I don’t think it’s heat they’re after. I have them behind the insulation between my first floor joists. Ain’t to warm on the wrong side of the insulation.
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Jim Mosier
Originally Posted By: jpope
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| Quote: |
| I had the same thoughts about maybe a sourse of heat there as I can't . . . |
one word - spell check  okay two words
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Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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On the plus side, when the little things get fried, they make an easy snack!
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: bemelander
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Actually we se these bug in a lot of places in Michigan. This is the first time I’ve seen them in an electrical panel(new home for the bugs)
–
Anchor Home Inspections
bill@anchorinspections.com
Originally Posted By: Harold Endean
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Hi Guys,
Joe asked me to join in here, I have been hanging around with Joe for many years. I just wanted to add my 2 cents here. Besides the Ladybugs, I see some violations. There seems to be a neutral and a ground wire under one screw and there also seems to be 2 neutral wires under 1 screw. That would be a violations of the NEC. For the “Grounded” conductors, the code wants only 1 wire per terminal. On the “Grounding” conductors, you can have 2 or more (as per the manufactures instructions) as long as they are the same size. (i.e. 2 # 14 ga wires.)
Harold
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi Harold, and welcome to NACHI
Regards
Gerry
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Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466
Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com
"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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Harold, by understanding is that neutrals may be doubles if the connector is rated for that under the manufacturers specifications. I dont like to see it, and always flag it, myself. Let a licensed sparky say it’s okay!
I've actually seen bundles of neutral conductors twisted together, and installed in a large terminal lug, in the old ITE Pushmatic panels. Just when I say "yikes", lo and behold, the AHJ's inspection and apprved sticker, emblazoned acress the panel.
Oh, well...
--
Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Joe F.,
This used to apply.
110.14 Electrical Connections.
(A) Terminals. Connection of conductors to terminal parts shall ensure a thoroughly good connection without damaging the conductors and shall be made by means of pressure connectors (including set-screw type), solder lugs, or splices to flexible leads. Connection by means of wire-binding screws or studs and nuts that have upturned lugs or the equivalent shall be permitted for 10 AWG or smaller conductors.
Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified.
Now, it's not allowed.
408.21 Grounded Conductor Terminations.
Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor.
Exception: Grounded conductors of circuits with parallel conductors shall be permitted to terminate in a single terminal if the terminal is identified for connection of more than one conductor.
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Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: roconnor
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| Harold Endean wrote: |
| Besides the Ladybugs, I see some violations. |
Welcome to the board Harold! Keep in mind that an HI is not really looking for "violations" ... it's really about looking for "defects", as well as "safety hazards" or "concerns" where current model codes (aka "current safety standards" or "current practice", etc.) are used as a guide ... 
| jfarsetta wrote: |
| Harold, my understanding is that neutrals may be doubles if the connector is rated for that under the manufacturers specifications. |
| jpeck wrote: |
| This used to apply .... 110.14 Electrical Connections .... Now, it's not allowed. |
Guys ... double lug neutrals were never allowed by model codes. Some sparkies/inspectors just considered it okay and misapplied that section of the code. I also think confusion with the code terms "grounded conductor" (neutral wire) and "grounding conductor" (ground/bond wire) may have a little to do with that ...
It's my understanding that the UL standard for panelboards (UL-67) never permitted double lug neutrals, so that would not have met the listing requirement ... regardless of any possible mislabeling.
I also understand that 408.21, which is new for the 2002 NEC, is directly from the UL standard which has been there for quite a long time. It was put in the NEC specifically because of the misapplied/misinterpreted standards in order to make it crystal clear neutrals are not to be double lugged.
But I agree the bottom line is those double lug neutrals are a concern.
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Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong