No Columns, just Studs

Originally Posted By: osmith
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Hello All,


I was doing a home today an saw something new to me. Normally, a basement has a few columns that hold up a beam running the length of the basement. Then the floor joists rest on the beams usually overlapping by 5" or 6". Today, I saw the floor joist being held up only by a 2 x 4 wall. They did overlap, but the the STUDs were the support. The home was 8 years old and showed no visible structural problems. (There were a few thin cracks here in there in the poured concret foundation walls). It was a relatively small basement (25' x 25'). Anyone come across this type of support before?

Thanks,

Oscar


--
Dreams without action stay dreams.

Originally Posted By: mmorris1
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I believe (OSB)I-joists can span 24 or 25 feet without a supporting wall. So in this case a stud wall would be fine. With regular dimensional lumber, I think there should be a beam and supports.


My Aunt had a new home in Port Huron MI that was built with a stud wall and no beam with overlapping dimensional lumber joists. It passed code, but I've seen some pretty scary things go past buidling code inspectors in those booming subdivisions.......


Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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How do you know the Studs were the support instead of steel posts buried in the wall?


Was it just a 2x4 frame wall with no drywall and no doubled or tripled 2x4 under the beam?


--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky

www.b4uclose.com

Originally Posted By: osmith
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Erby,


One side of the wall was not finished. So I could see all of it on that side.


--
Dreams without action stay dreams.

Originally Posted By: James D Mosier
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Load bearing exterior walls are made with 2 x 4s and no columns.



Jim Mosier

Originally Posted By: osmith
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James,


This I know, but this was in the center of the room.


--
Dreams without action stay dreams.

Originally Posted By: ccoombs
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Basements are not very common in my area, but I have used 2x4 stud walls as bearing walls. One concern would be if there was no drywall on either side, then there should be some blocking as a minimum to support/brace the studs. Typically you will need to have 2x6 or 3x4 studs at bearing walls carrying 2 floors and a roof. However, you can get around this in the interior if the wall is only bearing one floor.


The only concern I see is that it is not common for your area. If the new owner is expecting it to be a non-bearing wall and removes it, there will be some issues to say the least.


--
Curtis

Originally Posted By: rcoan
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I built my house in 1977 the basement had a footing down the center for the supporting wall of 2x4 studs it has 2x12 joists with about 6 or 8 inch over lap at the supporting wall. So far I haven’t had any problems, no cracks, or sagging doors or windows.


Rich


Originally Posted By: jwilliams4
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On a two-story house the second floor is supported by a


load-bearing wall in the center of the structure. If it works


for the second floor, it would also work in the basement


for the first floor. Don’cha reckon?



“not just an inspection, but an education”

Originally Posted By: rhinck
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Except in my area if a bearing wall in the basmt is carrying 2 levels it has to be 2x6


Rick


Originally Posted By: osmith
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Jae,


That makes since, but to Ricks point the basement wall would actually be carrying the load of both floors. All that weight for a teenie weenie 2 x 4?
Oh well, its been 8 years and its still standing. Must be okay.
I guess I'm over this now,

Thanks everyone,

Oscar


--
Dreams without action stay dreams.

Originally Posted By: James D Mosier
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Oscar,


While reviewing this thread, I hope I didn't come across as implying anything with my one sentence post above. I was just adding a thought to possibly spur discussion.


--
Jim Mosier

Originally Posted By: osmith
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James,


Think nothing of it. I put it out here to get exactly what you and the others did - your thoughts, opinions, experiences, stories, etc...

Everything is cool!

Oscar


--
Dreams without action stay dreams.

Originally Posted By: ckratzer
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It’s common practice.Nothing unusual at all and perfectly sound if there is a grade beam under it.A “grade beam” is the concrete footing richard was refering to.You won,t see it because the concrete floor is obviously poured over it.Most ,but not all,of the building plans I build from indicate the need for 2 x 6 stud walls .


What you’ve worried your little ol’self about is a non-issue. icon_wink.gif


Sleep well [/quote]


Originally Posted By: osmith
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Thanks Cheremie,


Good night!


--
Dreams without action stay dreams.

Originally Posted By: rcoan
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Hello Everyone,


I guess in my last note I over simplified the footing under the supporting wall. The note from my blue print says,


" Typical Bearing Stud Wall
2x4 @ 16" oc
4"Curb Block
16 x 8 conc FTG"

In the past two weeks I inspected two new houses that have the bottom plate laid on the footing and the floor poured around it. They had to tack in pieces between the studs to put up the sheetrock.

Rich


Originally Posted By: roconnor
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In a basement the bearing wall could also be placed over a thickened section of the floor slab … which isn’t visible, but make sure you look for cracks in the slab that may indicate it wasn’t thickened or a strip footing wasn’t placed below.


JMO and 2-nickels.


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

Originally Posted By: ckratzer
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Rich,


If you’re saying what I think you’re saying about the floor poured around the plate I have seen other builders around here do that as well.It’s usually because the weather turned too cold to pour their floor.In order to continue building progress the name of the game becomes get a structure enclosed so it can be heated to enable the floor to be poured.


Personally I think it’s a bad idea becuase wood reacts horribly with wet concrete.The concrete draws excess moisture out of the wood and compromises the wood fibers.


But we can’t stop progress now can we eusa_wall.gif


Originally Posted By: mcyr
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icon_smile.gif :


Oscar;

Nothing wrong with 2"x4" @ 16" O.C. stud bearing wall as long as the slab was depressed by at least 8" above and beyond the regular 4" slab.

How do I know or you know that is in fact they did or not, can only be verified by as built drawings or the possibility of a light moderate crack in the slab about one 1'- 18" away from the depressed slab. It cracks there every time.

Stud wall sole plates buried in concrete, not a good idea.
If that happens, that means they had to pour a footing.

Why not just have poured a footing pier where the lolly columns were to go, and box out a bondout for a temporary post?.

Marcel


Originally Posted By: roconnor
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rhinck wrote:
Except in my area if a bearing wall in the basmt is carrying 2 levels it has to be 2x6

Using 2"x6" or 3"x4" studs @ 16" O.C. for a bearing wall supporting a roof and two floors is also an IRC requirement (R602.3.1) ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong