Oil spill in basement

Originally Posted By: bgentry
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I got a call from a former client today who needs another inspection. They are looking at another house and said it has had an oil spill in the basement in the past. I remember hearing about a house last year right in town where the oil company tried to fill a basement tank that was no longer there and all the oil went straight to the floor. I’m thinking this is the same house because my client stated that the stains are about an inch up the walls all the way around and there are EPA inspection tags present which show that the property is habitable.


My question is:

Does anyone have any experience with this? I told them I would not be qualified to inspect hazardous material, but would like to give them some general information to go on. The basement still has an odor and they would like to know if it wouild ever go away or could be cleaned up any further.


--
Bradley S. Gentry
Superior Home Inspection, LLC
Harrisonburg, Charlottesville, &
Elkton, VA
www.superiorllc.net

Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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concern is odor then instalation of ozone equipment might be inorder. The smell will last a long time and a properly sized ozone generator will prevent the smell from being noticable.


Ozone will bond itself to the particles in the air including the little smellies redering them unsmellable.


--
.


Paul Hinsperger
Hinsperger Inspection Services
Chairman - NACHI Awards Committee
Place your Award Nominations
here !

Originally Posted By: bgentry
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Thanks Paul. I haven’t been in the home yet, but I am assuming the oil soaked into the concrete floor and walls. Would it do any good to use some sort of concrete sealant?


Would someone like servpro be the place to look for an ozone generator?


--
Bradley S. Gentry
Superior Home Inspection, LLC
Harrisonburg, Charlottesville, &
Elkton, VA
www.superiorllc.net

Originally Posted By: bkelly2
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Charcol filters might work also.



“I used to be disgusted, Now I try to Be amused”-Elvis Costello

Originally Posted By: psabados
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Quote:
Would it do any good to use some sort of concrete sealant?


Most sealants and coating require an oil-free surface. Even oil storage tanks have to be sand blasted before applying an FRP coating.

Paul


--
NACHI Vice President

NACHI Foundation, President

Convention Coordinator

Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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bgentry wrote:
Would someone like servpro be the place to look for an ozone generator?


I don't know as I am not familiar with them.

I put two units (I forget the size) in a commerical building of approx 30,000 sqft to get rid of some off gasing smell from new building materials. They were the kind with plates and cost about $2,500CAN each. These would probably be bigger than what your client would need

I also use a small bulb type my home that sits over the liter box for two elderly cats who are too aged to cover up their ...ummm... packages. ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

Ozone smells like it does after a rain storm. Lightning I think also produces ozone.


--
.


Paul Hinsperger
Hinsperger Inspection Services
Chairman - NACHI Awards Committee
Place your Award Nominations
here !

Originally Posted By: kwilliams
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Call the local oil company, there is a material that they put down


that will help, also open all windows with fans, this happened at my office last year, but it was only a 55 gal. drum, the smell was gone in a few weeks



Member - MAB


http://www.nachi.org/convention2006.htm

Originally Posted By: rcooke
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Please be VERY CAREFULL . We had one in Bellivlle Ontario and the cost I do not know if it has been settled yet is approaching One million Dollars Canadian . Only about $800,000:00 US.


I also did an inspection where the old home sold for $69,000:00 and the previous owner had to pay for the clean up cost I am told was $65,000:00.



Roy Cooke Sr.


http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: bsmith
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I had a major oil spill several years ago in my home (my son stepped on the copper line while playing hide and seek). The oil company came in and put down kitty litter to soak up the oil and then gave me a cherry scented spray to mask the scent. The key is ventilation - the odor went away but it took a while.



Bill Smith


www.SmithHomeInspection.com


“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.” A. Einstien

Originally Posted By: dplummer
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I would have an environmental engineer look at this basement. Depending on how much oil was spilt will determine the remediation process. I’ve handled only a couple oil spills over the years for insurance co’s & both times it required excavation & removal of the concrete floor. Very expensive. Roy is right , you can drop half a million very quickly. Ozone will help with the odor temporarily, but you must remove the source. Just my 2 cents . Doug


Originally Posted By: Caoimh?n P. Connell
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Mr. Gentry:


First of all, ozone would be a DISASTROUS choice. I have been an expert witness on six ozone cases where remediators have used ozone generators to ?solve? problems. My clients won each case. Mr. Hinsperger is incorrect when he states that ozone will bind itself to particles in the air ?including the little smellies.?

Ozone is an extremely powerful oxidizer which will oxidize the oil components in to a vast array of unknowable compounds ? some producing particularly pungent and unpleasant odours. Furthermore, the ozone is an indiscriminate oxidizer and will chemically attack everything else in the structure with which it contacts ? including carpets, furniture, clothing, people?s lungs, people?s eyes, mucus membranes, the dog ? you get the picture.

Although there are certain industrial applications where ozone is used in extremely controlled conditions, in residential settings, ozone usually equals snake oil. I have been on two cases where the homeowners lost their houses due to the application of ozone. There may ber some limited uses for ozone in residences, but 99% of its current residential applications are inappropriate.

Next, if the ?EPA? you reference is the US Environmental Protection Agency then, I need to respectfully disagree and Mr. Hinsperger is wrong again. The US EPA has neither the mandate nor the authority to enter someone?s house and determine the health risks per se. If the US EPA entered the house it was to determine compliance issues and enforcement issues for possible prosecution. If they collected any kind of exposure data at all, it would almost certainly been as part of larger prosecution effort. If it was a local city or state or county EPA, then their authority can be mandated from whoever has original jurisdiction.

Exposure data in this case (even if it was the EPA) would have been prepared exclusively by an industrial hygienist. Go through the yellow pages, county health department, etc and get some bids from industrial hygienists with experience in exposure monitoring and modeling.

The oil components will very, very, very slowly migrate from the concrete into the air in the occupied space. Depending on the specific conditions, it could take anywhere from weeks to centuries for the odour to dissipate.

Sealants may help. The kitty litter works well on free standing oil, but not so good on concrete soaked with oil. There are a number of surfactants on the market that would be effective. One product, called ?Concrete Cleaner? manufactured by Franssen Enterprises is supposed to be specifically designed for this purposes. I have not personally seen the effectiveness of the product.

The appropriateness and effectiveness of the actual remediation method selected will be very much case dependant and needs to be evaluated on a case-by-cases basis. Again, here is where an industrial hygienist would be able to provide you with consultation.

Ozone? Good heavens ? can you spell L-A-W S-U-I-T?

Just my thoughts, others may disagree?

Cheers,

Caoimh?n P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist

www.forensic-applications.com

<SMALL> (The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG </SMALL>


Originally Posted By: rwand
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Stay away from Ozone Generators, they are hazardous to your health.


Raymond Wand
Alton, ON


--
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905

http://www.raymondwand.ca
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (R.H.I.)

Originally Posted By: dplummer
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Hi Guys! What info do you have on the hazards of ozone generators? I’d be interested in any info. I have & still do use ozone generators for removal of smoke odour in clothing & contents(fire/smoke damage). I do not use ozone in homes that are being occupied. I know of hotels/motels that use ozone in rooms to remove cigarette odour. Any thoughts? Doug


Originally Posted By: rcooke
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dplummer wrote:
Hi Guys! What info do you have on the hazards of ozone generators? I'd be interested in any info. I have & still do use ozone generators for removal of smoke odour in clothing & contents(fire/smoke damage). I do not use ozone in homes that are being occupied. I know of hotels/motels that use ozone in rooms to remove cigarette odour. Any thoughts? Doug


A good read.

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html


--
Roy Cooke Sr.

http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: lewens
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I had a small, 25-30 gallon spill in my place because they dummies that took out the tank didn’t check that it was completely empty when they cut it to get it out. After they cleaned it up I went in with about 2 gallons of bleach and soaked the floor. It worked but wear a good mask as the fumes will most likely make you pass out. A couple of days later the smell had reduced by about 90% and is now not noticeable at all. I don’t know if this an approved method but it worked.


Larry



Just my usual 12.5 cents


From The Great White North Eh?
NACHI-CAN
www.aciss-brant.com
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com/

Originally Posted By: dplummer
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Thanks Roy! It was a good read. It did reaffirm by believe that ozone generators are still effective in controlling smoke odours in fire related situations. Cheers! Doug


Originally Posted By: Caoimh?n P. Connell
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Mr. Plummer ?


I?m curious, what part of the EPA publication linked by Roy could have possibly reaffirmed your idea that ozone was effective in controlling odours?

Cheers,
Caoimh?n P. Connell


Originally Posted By: dplummer
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Hello Caoimhin! Just a little background info on me. I’ve been involved in fire/water restoration for over 20 years. During this time I’ve used ozone quite successfully in controlling odours in smoke damaged clothing & buildings. Always controlled & monitored. Always wearing a respirator.


In answer to your question, under the subtitle “Can ozone be used in unoccupied spaces” it makes ref. to ozone being used in fire damage situations. Nice chatting with you again! Doug


Originally Posted By: Caoimh?n P. Connell
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Mr. Plummer -


Thanks for the reply. Gotcha- I agree that under some restoration activities it may be a useful tool. However, I have too often seen ozone used in occupied spaces or some folks simpling filling houses with ozone as part of snake oil "remediations" or moulds, and even asbestos!

Cheers,
Caoimh?n