Originally Posted By: Julie This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
:evil: Hi
Need expert advice. You all seem like experts.
Live in an expensive new neighorhood. Homes are 6 mos to 1 1/2 yrs. old.
6 Homes have FLOODED on first floor. Pex was used with silver looking crimps that have blown. Every few days, another house floods. It is horrible. The builder seems clueless. He won't admit to anything. He won't change out the plumbing, he just "cleans" up the mess and waits for the next one to go.
We are all really stressed out (homeowners). We have spent alot of money on these homes and pay unGodly property taxes. We have literally been screwed by this builder. Plumbers in the area are suggesting to repipe. Whole house. But, it would be a terrible mess. We have 4-5000 sq ft houses.
Any ideas? Why would this happen?
Originally Posted By: bkelly1 This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Julie,
Go to find an inspector on the site, and get a NACHI inpector to come out and look in person. The fee he charges will be well worth it if it can prevent your house from flooding. Yes , you do have a problem..Document..Document..Document...ASk the inspector to take photos, and check water pressure...be patient many others will respond!
Originally Posted By: jonofrey This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I find it hard to believe that licensed plumbers (familiar with PEX) would recommend repipe. In theory, there is less chance of leaking with solid PEX piping. After all, the piping is solid from the manablock to the fixture. From what you describe you’ve got a fitting/connector problem. You need a licensed plumber familiar with PEX and make sure it’s a full crack plumber. Bypass the inspector on this one, you already know you need a good plumber.
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
All of our Pex lines in this area are run from a manifold block(manabloc) and use compression fittings rather than crimp fittings. Crimp fittings are not allowed here according to the AHJ. Also, all lines are run without break or connection from the manifold to the shutoff valve at the fixture it serves. It has been in use for over ten years here without any of the types of incidents you describe.
It sounds to me like you have an el cheapo installation, or poorly installed fittings! The only reason I could see recommending repiping is if improper fittings were used and/or there are connections in walls and ceilings.
Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
[quote=“jonofrey”]I find it hard to believe that licensed plumbers (familiar with PEX) would recommend repipe. In theory, there is less chance of leaking with solid PEX piping. After all, the piping is solid from the manablock to the fixture. From what you describe you’ve got a fitting/connector problem.
I have to agree with John about that, based on the info at hand. The repipe recommendation sounds "opportunistic" to me.
Originally Posted By: Julie This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hello
The clips or fittings are definately silver, and not black copper.
Why in the world would the plumbing sub contractor (Production Plumbing) do that? The other thing is that when the house was being built (houses) they had SO many connections. Instead of using one length of pipe, they connected a 6" then an 8" then a 4"...just piece meal. We complained about it and they told us that it is not a problem, not to worry. We even tried to "not close" and threaten them, but our attorney said you have to go through with it until "something" happens and then you will have to sue the builder.
I cannot imagine the mess it will be to have our walls opened up to replace fittings. But another flood would be just as messy.
Unbelievable. This whole thing is disgusting.
Some of my neighbors, who flooded a few months ago are now going through Mold Remediation, whereby the mold companies come out and take your dry wall down, close off areas of the house..etc. WHat a mess.
We cannot do anything except pay for a plumber and dry waller to rip this house apart.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Julie wrote:
We even tried to "not close" and threaten them, but our attorney said you have to go through with it until "something" happens and then you will have to sue the builder.
It think you were horribly misinformed by this attorney. A competent attorney, familiar with construction law, would have recommended that you get an expert opinion to substantiate your claim prior to close. I hope you seriously reconsider your choice of attorney when it comes time to sue your builder.
Get the PEX factory rep out there, pay for your repairs and then load your guns. Be sure your new attorney (a construction law specialist) includes the plumbing subcontractor in your claim.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
It think you were horribly misinformed by this attorney. A competent attorney, familiar with construction law, would have recommended that you get an expert opinion to substantiate your claim prior to close. I hope you seriously reconsider your choice of attorney when it comes time to sue your builder.
Careful Jeff, laws of every state are different. Contractually in this state you can not fail to close if the home has received a Certificate of Occupancy from the local AHJ. It is assumed when the CO is issued that the home meets all local building standards.
If you choose not to close, you may be sued contractually for specific performance. This was the same scenario in VA when I lived there. Builders contracts are written heavily in their favor.
Originally Posted By: mtimpani This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
After your pex rep, go to your town hall, then your city hall, then the builders/contractors associations, then the attorney generals office. See what these people have to say and follow their leads. You should be told by them what to do and if not, read between the lines of what they are saying. The may not want to come right out and say certain things. Make sure to document and photograph everything you can. You can try to find who the plumbing contractor is and see if they are licensed. Also start going from neighbor to neighbor and have them sign a letter or /and write their own time line of what has happened. Please let us know if we can be of any more help.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
bwiley wrote:
Careful Jeff, laws of every state are different.
You're right Blaine, I should have considered the specific State before making that first statement.
I guess I'm just use to a "consumer friendly" State 
Consider this portion retracted and don't forget to include the local AHJ in your lawsuit!
Quote:
It think you were horribly misinformed by this attorney. A competent attorney, familiar with construction law, would have recommended that you get an expert opinion to substantiate your claim prior to close.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: phinsperger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Julie wrote:
The clips or fittings are definately silver, and not black copper.
There are some stainless steel crimp rings but the stainless steel fittings I've ever seen are for the compression fittings that use compression rings not crimp rings. There is more than one approved way to properly connect PEX pipe.
Julie, while your waiting for a PEX rep to show up, could you take a photo of one of the connections and post it here? That way we'll be a lot clearer about your situation.
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Julie wrote:
The clips or fittings are definately silver, and not black copper.
phinsperger wrote:
I am also left scratching my head ... is it possible that it's actually Polybutylene plastic piping (PB Pipe) with the shiny stainless steel or aluminum crimp rings, instead of the better/replacement PEX plastic supply piping ... ... I understand PB is still used in some areas, but thought it went the way of the dodo bird ...
[While PEX can have stainless steel fittings/rings, I thougth they were always black ... CLICK HERE... but I guess it's possible it's PEX piping with the incorrect shiny SS crimps used with PB piping ... CLICK HERE]
Do the water supply lines look anything like some of the PB piping shown in this link ... CLICK HERE
In any event, I agree it sounds like ya really do need a good licensed master plumber, who may also be an HI that understands some of the older problematic installations. Mark has some good suggestions too.
Just my opinion and 2-nickels ...
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: mcraig This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I just was at a PEX installation seminar on Wed. what you describe is not PEX it is PB, PEX only uses compresion fittings they have there own tools to install there fittings contact www.wirsbo.com they make PEX you will find you do not have PEX. I talked to Earl Brockert at Southwest Sales Reps Arizona, LC Cell:480-861-4801 if there are crimped fittings it is PB or the plumber didn’t know how to install PEX and didn’t use the propper tools and fittings. You need to get PEX people involved in this contact them…
Originally Posted By: phinsperger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
mcraig wrote:
... PEX only uses compresion fittings....if there are crimped fittings it is PB or the plumber didn't know how to install PEX and didn't use the propper tools and fittings.
Sorry Micheal but crimping IS an approved and accepted method by the PEX manufacturs. Perhaps it is not allowed in your area. I don't know. But PEX does allow use of the crimp method as well as the compression fitting method. But as with anything it has to be done right!
I had thought also that Julie might have PB but she did say "PEX" which is a term most home owners would not even know. Julie, in addition to the photo, can you write down what is printed on the pipe its self and post it here. ?
Originally Posted By: mcraig This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Check with the web sight and talk to your PEX rep. Crimping is not allowed and they train plumbers to install PEX with there own tools and connectors only They warrenty there products for life so it has to be done there way only no other way is accepted at all. Only a Certified PEX plumber can install PEX That is why I listed there websight and a Rep’s phone Number. They want to know if there product is not installed properly. (Check with them)
Originally Posted By: dspencer This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
If you read the 1st post the PEX website states crimping IS allowed and states to use black copper rings. Our PEX installers crimp all fitting here so I would call your local plumbing code division in your state.[/u]