Play: "Spot the problems"

[pbolliger (Patrick Bolliger)]

@jfarsetta

I agree that there is no sediment leg and that the shutoff valve should be above the union. As to an emergency shutoff switchv, it may be on an opposing wall (which is acceptable). The wire seen to the right of the furnace does not go through the filter, and is likely a thermostat wire, which is low tension. Sloppy, but technically not a problem.

Joe, That was the power to the unit not the thermostat wire. It did not go through the filter. It was “Plugged” in a light fixture ( not in view) with a standard extension cord cut and wire nut . No proper electrical wiring was present.

As to combustion air, it cannot be determined from the photo, but if there is a louvered door on this closet, it’s fine. Firestop is needed at the ceiling penetration.

That would not be acceptable . The return air duct is clearly wrong and placing a louvered door in that location would not only create more of a problem but it would contribute to the poor performance and even assist in Carbon Monoxide production.
Wood louvered doors generally have to be considered 25% free area!
Metal louvers are 75% free area.
1 square inch for every 1000 BTU’s then figure on the loss of area.

Peoples Energy:

“A return air opening cannot be installed in the same room as the furnance.
Return air ducts and combustion air openings are to be installed so that they do not interfere with each other’s function.”
Per MFG guidlines its wrong wrong Plus:

Code check page 7 (HVAC)
UMC 906.6.5
IRC 1602.3 Return air (Must be 10ft. min. from natural-draft appliance combustion chamber/draft hood or wood-burning fireplace.

Fire stop at ceiling yes BUT this combination of venting types is a problem
Improper connections and slope. The “chimney” was tar-ed at the roof penetration…:roll: Even with “B” vent the gap is wrong…

This unit was NOT installated by a licensed qualified HVAC professional. Its a hack job clearly done on the sly.

Return air ducting may be undersized, but this installation is tied to existing ductwork in the home. The comment regarding a 6’ distance for return ducting was insteresting.

The picture does not clearly show everything. There is NO return air “Duct” per definition of a return air duct. . That box off the right side is the “return air duct” . :roll:
The requirement per code and local utility safety are not here. This mess is done without understanding the concepts of operation of this unit. The powerful “pull” from the blower motor ( via open return air duct) would be strong enough to influence the burners.

Question: Was this installation inspected and approved by the AHJ? If so, the best one can do is to refer it to a licensed HVAC contractor, one of which (I assume), installed this unit.

Most likey NOT AHJ inspected or installed by a licensed HVAC contractor. If that were the case I would have found a sticker/ tag (you hope) for service by the installer/ company/ contractor.

Heating systems are typically installed wherever they can fit. As ductwork is installed, and phased inspections take place, all involved are aware of the rules and constraints. And, as with most codes, there are exceptions and interpretations.

Not the case here. This was a “replacement” heating system to deal with the non -functioning boiler in the basement. The supply ducting from this FAU was installed open through out the living space.

Someone did this who has enough knowledge to do this kind of work but is not fully versed in installing natural gas burning appliances.

Hence the new 2007 law for all buildings with living spaces to have a CO detector is a start. (The authorities simply do not have enough staff /personnel to inspect/ find these unsafe/ unlicensed/ unprofessional installations. I would even venture to say this is not that rare. Many questionable installations are done in Chicago on a regular basis.

[gveal (Greg Veal, CMI, ICC)]

Patrick,
This looks like a recent changeout as apposed to new house installation. That would answer the first question of how did it get past the municpal inspector.
Next, I see-
-Singlewall vent piping through drywall ceiling with no firestop (Must be B’ vent material with 1" min. clearance and firestop)
-No dripleg in gas line (needed to collect condensation & debris)
-L/V t’stat wiring thru R/A filter track - no protective rubber gromet
-Open R/A plenum-Front- Combustion air and flame rollout possible
-No visible Hi/Lo combustion air in closet (from an outside source)
-Clearance of Furnace from combustible materials, especially front panel
-No Plenum or Ductwork insulation or mastic/sealant at joints; although no insulation is needed if ductwork is incapsulated within conditioned space
-I don’t see a Cond. Pump, Ref.Lines - I assume no A/C is installed
-Bottom panel critical for fan switch operation and to avoid backdrafting or flame rollout during operation, even with an induced draft fan system on this 80%+/- AFUE rated furnace
-I’m probably missing something else, but…

GoodLuck

[jfarsetta (Joe Farsetta)]

Pat,

I’ll have to disagree with you with regard to louvered doors. Some wooden louvered doors can allow for about 85% total louvered opening, which is more than sufficient. As to clearances, sometimes there are simply insufficient working space in these utility rooms, which the architect, AHJ, and gas company in our parts okay on a regular basis.

I was mistaken, and thought that the ducting to the lower right exited the room. I didnt realize until looking at the photo again that the return was in the same room. In most raised ranch hmes with forced air systems, the return is on the opposite side of the utility room wall, less than 2’ from the furnace intake. Louvered door adjacent to the return duct in many cases.

And, we can both agree that this installation was poorly executed…

[aleleika (A Dan Leleika)]

@jfarsetta

Pat,

I’ll have to disagree with you with regard to louvered doors. Some wooden louvered doors can allow for about 85% total louvered opening, …

Wow, How do you change the laws of physics for some wood louvre’s and not others.?? (they all have the same amount of gap between them)

Wood Louvre’s only allow for 25% of its total area for air flow. This is how it is. If you have 100 inch louvred vent that is made of wood, it only gives you 25 inches of free air flow for combustion air and not 100 inches of free air flow…You can’t change this fact. This is so very important to know if you say that the combustion air is ok. These calculations are imperative and someones life could depend on it.

If you have a metal louvered vent that is 100 inches, then you have 75 inches of air flow for combustion air.

http://www.codecheck.com/pg21_22mechanical.html (7th line down)

[kbraun (Keith Braun)]

Nothing personal, but I think you fellas are trying to get too technical in regards to louver sizes and free areas. Unless you are a P.E. or an expert in this area I would say, “Keep it simple.” There is more than enough “not right” here to recommend corrections be made by a qualified HVAC person. Absolve yourselves of liability.