PLEA from ASHI that pushed for Licensing

General Inspection Topics Legislation, Licensing, Ethics & Legal Issues
1

Hey is this not grand.

They two guys that pushed the hardest for Mo HI Licensing are pleading for HELP

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Great Plains ASHI Chapter <email_watch@omnimagnet.net>
Date: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 10:14 AM
Subject: ACTION NEEDED: MO Home Inspector Legislation - HB 1291

Great Plains ASHI Chapter [email_watch@omnimagnet.net]

ASHI Members –
The following is a letter I received from Harry Morrell regarding the Missouri House Bill – HB 1291. As you will read the lawyers want to make the limit of liability 1 year from date of discovery.
This would make us be liable for anything in the house for virtually ever. A crack in a heat exchanger could develop 10 years after our inspection and the owner would have one year later to file a claim against the home inspector.
Please read and send a letter to your congressman or to Ellen Brandom. This needs to happen soon, and don’t get wordy get to the point.
This is needed to protect you and every home inspector doing inspections in the State of Kansas.
Please respond to the appropriate Representative soon.
Thanks
Tom Lauhon
President, Great Plains ASHI
913-683-1192

Gentlemen,
HB 1291 had its hearing last week. The two issues opponents had with the Bill were the high standards to become a home inspector; and the lawyers group who want one year from the date the defect was discovered to file a claim against the inspector.
We need our members to voice their concern to the House Professional Registration and Licensing Committee. Rep. Ellen Brandom R, Chair, ellen.brandom@house.mo.gov; go to the House web-site, and review the committee members. If you live in a committee member’s district, contact him/her directly by email., if not contact Rep Brandom direct.
Please relate to the member(s) that MO and the inspection industry needs high standards for home inspectors to provide home buyers and sellers with the best possible service. Doing practice inspections for clients or home buyers to obtain experience to qualify for a MO Home Inspectors License will not serve the citizens of MO well. Education and training is already in place through professional associations, so anyone who wants to enter the industry can do so with hard work and desire.
Our industry needs and supports a one year statue of limitation to file a claim of error or omission against a home inspector. States that provide for home inspection license have adopted this one year statue of limitation, and in fact is written into Bills across the country. Industry standards conclude that home owners will be able to tell over the course of a year and four full seasons if a roof leaks, if the furnace and air condition operates, if the electric and plumbing provides adequate service to the house, and if the foundation is performing as intended. Anything more than a year will place a great burden of responsibility upon the home inspector who typically operates as a one or two person business.
Use these talking points as is, or tweak them up or down. Do not get wordy. Remember; LESS IS MORE!!
Harry Morrell
Allied Building Inspections
314-223-7310

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2

Less than two weeks ago and after the Missouri Association of Realtors pushed for a public hearing on the ASHI bill … they bombarded the legislature with the following canned letter to promote the lie that “many” home inspectors “support” HB 1291.

Here is a link to that letter.

There was strong opposition to this bill made individually to each member of the committee, personally, in several meetings prior to the public hearing from a variety of people who oppose HB 1291 that neither ASHI or MAR knew anything about. There was testimony made at the public hearing, such as this letter bearer, that offered additional opposition. On 2/8/12, there were eight people from the real estate industry and ASHI who testified in support of HB 1291 and there were seven people who testified against it in addition to the other folks who have been weighing in against it since the opening of this year’s legislative session.

An executive session of 2/15/12 did NOT provide the intended result that ASHI and MAR had anticipated. Now that it appears that the ASHI bill is not getting the support it needs … you are being asked in a post made to this thread (and probably the same emails that I have received) to lobby for it.

Just as ASHI leaders in various sections of the state have been trying to convince the Missouri Association of Realtors that they are the voice of home inspectors in Missouri … they are now asking for you to further that illusion which they wish to present to the Missouri legislature.

If you are an ASHI president or past president who has been promised a seat on the board that this bill creates … by all means, send the email that Harry wants you to send. Likewise, if you are wanting to start up a school and have a licensing law that will send potential students to your class, send Harry’s email.

But there is nothing in this newly contrived “panic” that opposes the licensing bill … you are simply being duped into opposing wording that the ASHI presidents and past presidents object to while providing the illusion that they speak for you and that you are a part of their effort. Don’t be a sucker.

3

Less than two weeks ago and after the Missouri Association of Realtors pushed for a public hearing on the ASHI bill … they bombarded the legislature with the following canned letter to promote the lie that “many” home inspectors “support” HB 1291.

Here is a link to that letter. It speaks of the “many” home inspectors who are in support of this bill and helped to write it. If you are not one of those inspectors, someone is wanting state legislators to think you are.

There was strong opposition to this bill made individually to each member of the committee, personally, in several meetings prior to the public hearing from a variety of people who oppose HB 1291 that neither ASHI or MAR knew anything about.

There was testimony made at the public hearing, such as this letter bearer, that offered additional opposition. On 2/8/12, there were eight people from the real estate industry and ASHI who testified in support of HB 1291 and there were seven people who testified against it in addition to the other folks who have been weighing in against it since the opening of this year’s legislative session.

An executive session of 2/15/12 did NOT provide the intended result that ASHI and MAR had anticipated. Now that it appears that the ASHI bill is not getting the support it needs … you are being asked in a copy of an email posted to this thread to lobby for it.

Just as ASHI leaders in various sections of the state have been trying to convince the Missouri Association of Realtors that they are the voice of home inspectors in Missouri … they are now asking for you to further that illusion which they wish to present to the Missouri legislature.

If you are an ASHI president or past president who has been promised a seat on the board that this bill creates … by all means, send the email that Harry wants you to send. Likewise, if you are wanting to start up a school and have a licensing law that will send potential students to your class, send Harry’s email.

But there is nothing in this newly contrived “panic” that opposes the licensing bill … you are simply being duped into opposing wording that the ASHI presidents and past presidents object to while providing the illusion that they speak for you and that you are a part of their effort. Don’t be a sucker.

4

I don’t know Harry personally, but he probably should take his own advice - LESS IS MORE. Maybe less pushing for licensing!

I’m not making fun in any way, and don’t mean to offend anyone, but I believe it is statute of limitations, not statue, unless he’s actually talking about a statue.

I had been corresponding with my state rep recently by email. He has always replied to my emails (or his intern). In the last email I had sent to him, a few weeks ago, I had asked him the questions, “What is driving the licensing issue? Why home inspectors? Why not remodeling companies, handyman companies, builders, etc?” He never replied to that email. Not sure why, as he did reply to the four previous emails. I would have liked to have discussed that aspect with him. Maybe later.

5

If that liability clause makes it to the bill, and the bill passes, no one will be doing home inspections. We will not be able to. Not one home builder or appliance manufacturer rarely warrants anything over one year. We cannot, and will not, carry the liability of agents, home builders, and repair persons.

Perhaps this is just another way for agents and special interest groups to get us out of the way of home sale transactions, so agents, banks, sellers and lenders can sell sub-par properties to unsuspecting Missouri home buyers.

6

Dirt Harry is a St. Louis inspector that has been pushing to get licensing so hard that he occasionally gets S H I T on his nose from sticking it up the A S S of a certain MAR Lobbyist. He actually threatened me before a meeting once because I called him out during a legislative meeting and got him to apologize, a few months before. Dan saw both occurrences. When Harry speaks, you get the impression he has no ideal what he is doing. It is like the blind leading the blind. If it was not for MAR’s money, licensing would have never gotten this far.

7

Perhaps the home inspection business is slow, and the MAR is paying him do some dirty work during the slow time. Little must he know that what he is doing will hurt him dramatically, financiallly, in the future when no one suggests to hire him as a home inspector.

Thousands of home inspectors have left ASHI, and their time is limited. Why do you think they are screaming for help? If there are 2,400 home inspectors in Missouri, where are they?

8

ASHI members are paying dues that support ASHI’s lobbyist, Pat Strader, who works closely with MAR’s lobbyist, Sam Licklider, to continue to push these silly bills.

Legislators humor them year after year and appear to be giving these useless bills their attention while the lobbyists keep promising (after 10 years, now) that “this is the year”.

ASHI members are getting tired of throwing good money after bad. So are the used house salesmen. This is why this year they went for broke and got two identical bills filed in both houses of the legislature.

It doesn’t change anything, though.

While the legislature tries to slash spending and the governor is reducing the amount of money going toward education … the idea of enriching a few ASHI presidents and past presidents with cush jobs at the taxpayer’s expense is just not getting the enthusiasm that the ***paid ***lobbyists promised … again, like they did the previous nine years.

The only people making money are Sam Licklider and Pat Strader while many of ASHI’s rank-and-file members are trying to stay alive in a dying industry while their money is being flushed down a toilet in the state capital.

This is not going to be the year, guys. The “trial lawyer” thing is a hoax designed to generate emails. Don’t fall for it.

9

So are you saying the home inspection profession is a dying industry?

10

Yes, it is. The life of our industry is very limited, and coming to an end.

Appraisers, who are exempt from home inspection laws, are getting paid for checking the value of the home, so why not check for defects along the way?

HVAC, electricians, roofers, plumbers, all do home “checks” for free.

RE agents, who are also exempt, do home checks for free, for the prospective buyers. Other office agents can check windows, faucets, electrical outlets, etc. all for free.

Why do you think Nick, Ben, and others are pushing energy audits?

Home buyers nationwide are getting shafted by all of these people, thanks to licensing of home inspectors. Lawsuits are the norm in many home inspection licensed states, so why do you think attorneys are involved? They want the money, too.

11

Once again as usual, I totally disagree with Gary and his views. There is no foreseeble end to the profession. He has lost much of his work because is one the “good ole boys” was making good money when the profession was at its infancy and competition was low.

Welcome to the world of business! If you do not give people what they want, you will be gone. Want to know why home inspectors are going out of business due to poor revenue flow? Most likely, they suck. They either suck at the profession or marketing or both.

I will prove it with just 5 names off the top of my head…Jerry Suarez, Preston Halstead, John Shishilla, Troy Pappas, Sean Fogerty…What do these people have in common? Intelligence, drive and vision and they are all relatively new to the profession. Within the last 4 years I am guessing. What else do they have in common? They are slowly but surely taking over their competitions business little by little.

How can this be? NO WAY…I mean we are losing all this work to these roofers, electricians, adjusters, appraisers. BS, we LOSE nothing. We give it away! How do we give it away? By not giving the people what they want at a price they feel has value.

All of these people came into the profession and after talking to many, they saw the people in the profession and said "Are you kidding me? If these guys can do it, so can I! And they have. They have seen where the gaps were, where they can market, they do reasearch and because they are new, they look for the best possible way to perform a task.

Example, I have known John Shishilla for maybe a couple of years. He is a rather large Wind Mitigation provider. I personally have seen about 8 different ways he provides a (now 4 page report). Once again that is ALL I have seen, I am sure there were many more. Listen a 4 page report and he deisgns, refines, fine tunes and adjusts the method on a daily basis. He can do it on a phone, Android, Iphone, Ipad, Chalk and blackboard probably too!

Why take so much time to peform a 4 page report and fine tune it probably 100’s of times? Its a word many do not know, its called PROFESSIONALISM and he want the job to be done and reported the best way possible and does nto settle on mediocrity

I have known Sean Fogerty for about a year…He once asked me about mold testing probably about a year ago. Now, he visits and goes to the lab often, knows the Phd by name and asks a ton of questions. His thirst and quest for knowledge is beyond the typical persons. Guess what, Sean is successful and getting bigger and bigger. Wicked smart on mold…see how a little effort pays off.

Jerry Suarez - New guy in a high competition market MIAMI, where price is so low it almost pays not to do them. I think he won website of the year. I mean how can a new guy do this. People have had home inspector websites for YEARS. How can this guy dominate that aspect within a year of being a home inspector? Plain and simple, our website sucks, his doesn’t. He learned it from the ground up with his wife. He then broadened his services to include termite and Radon and maybe even some other things.

There are just a few examples that the profession is alive and well and growing and going to be here long after I am gone.

So its just a lesson of business attrition. You suck and do not give the people what they want. SEE YA…

I have found the person at fault for home inspection business’s going under. I hate to say it but that person is hiding in your bathroom. Go there right now and look into that mirror and that is why your business sucks. Tough pill to swallow, but facts are facts…Sorry for the thread hijacking…

12

No. The real estate sales industry, as we knew it prior to 2006, is dying. Some would argue that it is already time to pull the plug.

While these poor guys are trying to make a living in that dying industry, their “leaders” are charging them extra money that they use to pay lobbyists (for ten years, now) to struggle to pass a law that will only land them a job with the state and a few new schools while increasing the perceived credibility of their competitors to a shared “licensed” status.

13

I guess it is different elsewhere. I am often referred by two Realtors in my area, they are a team. In the past 8 weeks, they have sold about $125,000,000 in property and having their best year ever. I guess its regional. I do not think the Real Estate profession or arena is dying I think its slightly changing because people want value for their money. How they percieve the value is individual.

14

When Missouri real estate agents begin selling property in Florida, perhaps their fortunes will change.:wink:

15

Fair enough…

16

Be careful what you wish for!

17

Some people have better markets than others. One of the west Kansas home inspectors that is a friend lives in a town with 25,000 people. Where he lives is the largest City in over 150+ miles. In this 150 mile radius he has a couple of towns with 5,000 - 7500 residents and about 75 miles away another town with about 19,000 people.

In the past 12 years by being willing to cover a 125 mile circle around his home AND to diversify (home inspections, radon, FHA, USDA, new construction, termites, IR, etc) he has been able to do 200 up to 300 inspections a year. He now tells me that the last 2 years have been down, down, down.

In January this year they had 4 closings in his town AND 9 total closings in the 65 mile circle surrounding him. If EVERY sale got inspected AND EVERY sale got an inspection AND he dominated the market and got EVERY inspection … You ain’t got squat for a full time inspection business AND you know every home didn’t get inspected.

So yes SOME inspectors do better inspections than others BUT are not as good as sales people as others.

One of Kansas Citys top 15 Realtors is a fantastic sales person BUT close to half of her initial sales fall apart BECAUSE of a lack of details. I’ve been at home inspections where after talking to the people its IMMEDIATELY clear they can’t qualify (they drove by a house, liked the looks and called her / she sold them the house on the phone or in her office without EVER qualifying them OR telling them the roof needed replacing and the foundation wall had moved in over 3", SO when they get to the house - CRAP hits the fan).

She works on the philosophy of throw stuff at the wall AND something is bound to stick.

18

Thanks James for clarifying.

19

Over 90% of my inspections so far this year have been referrals from past home buyers. I rarely get recommended by agents because of my CMI status, detailed reports,and high price. I have a better chance of finding defects, so the newbie $199 inspectors are getting all of the business. One inspector gives away hundreds of dollars a month in prizes to agents who give him inspections, and pays hundreds of dollars more to be on vendor lists. Not ethical.

I have recently started offering $199 inspections that do not include appliances or appliance connections, one window, one outlet, one switch per room, one door, one cabinet, and one stairway. No takers yet.

20

I’ve got to say that I agree with Russ Hensel. One year ago my average HI ticket was $250 and I was slow. Today it is $632 and I’m busy. I made the decision to diversify and add radon, mold, WDO, 203K consultantcy, increase insurance inspections (wind mit, commercial wind mits using my CGC license, commercial 4 points, roof certs) and I am growing in insurance loss control inspections. I will still do a $250 HI but it is primarily a 4 point which is fine with many buyers. They can see the minor hole in the drywall and turn on the stove for themselves. Education and practical knowledge are the keys in this business. This is a challenging market due to the poor RE market, tight credit and the huge influx of new competition (most of which are unqualified to be here). One of the biggest problems with the RE industry is too many agents which allows for brokers/RE schools to can them like sardines. This is happening in our industry. ASHI/NACHI are in the business of recruiting paid members; RE brokers are in the business of recruiting agents; car dealers are in the business of recruiting salesmen who can sell a couple of cars to their family members; for profit colleges are in the business of recruiting students; states are in the business of recruiting licensees; attorneys are in the business of suing anyone who delivers a product or service; it goes on and on. In any profession, 3% will make an exceptional income and make a market in their trade; 5-8% will excel; 4% will survive and the rest will not be remembered. If you are not part of the top 15%, you will not build a business in any market regardless of the size. One successful HI told me the average HI needs a population of 10,000 to survive without competition. So if you have a population of 30,000, there should be no more than 3 HI’s in that market. I think in Central Florida we are around 6000 population per HI. Looks like about 900 population per HI in SE Florida which is why guys are advertising $199 home inspections. But, the successful HI’s in both areas are not doing $199 home inspections and they are in that top 8% bracket and their business is growing. It’s black and white and it has nothing to do with the economy, realtors, attorneys or solar flares - your success depends on your education, knowledge and business model. Whether you are inspecting trailers or estate homes, you need to be one of the 15% by matching your business to market need/expectations. Just my 2 cents.